What to do with your family when there is little to no cover? - Page 2

What to do with your family when there is little to no cover?

This is a discussion on What to do with your family when there is little to no cover? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs ok guys i set here chastised , What i read into the posts was not the intent of the posts ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 42

Thread: What to do with your family when there is little to no cover?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    ok guys i set here chastised , What i read into the posts was not the intent of the posts . I still feel that the clarification was needed tho lol .
    Nah no chastising at all intended. We were all talking about the same thing. I sometimes feel that most flame wars/arguments here tend to start over people talking about the same solution for the same problem and disagreeing with each other about which same solution is the correct one.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.


  2. #17
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,891
    You should try to tactfully work some things out with your 8 year old.
    Don't panic the kid but, an intelligent 8 year old can sure help any situation out by being responsible for at least one of the younger ones.
    Giving your eldest child something rehearsed to do will give your entire family a slight advantage.

    The reality is that if you're out in the open and bullets are flying in your direction it's always a nasty crap-shoot & with no immediate cover available you're unfortunately at an obvious decided disadvantage.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  3. #18
    Member Array gmitch40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    You should try to tactfully work some things out with your 8 year old.
    Don't panic the kid but, an intelligent 8 year old can sure help any situation out by being responsible for at least one of the younger ones.
    Giving your eldest child something rehearsed to do will give your entire family a slight advantage.

    The reality is that if you're out in the open and bullets are flying in your direction it's always a nasty crap-shoot & with no immediate cover available you're unfortunately at an obvious decided disadvantage.
    QKShooter,

    Thanks for the vote on giving responsibility to my 8 yo. He is mature for 8 and has responded quickly and level-headed to a few different situations at home. He seems to stay calmer than many adults, which may be because he doesn't understand the true consequences of the situation.

    This would require talk throughs, at least, if not some form of simulation like drills for fires or BGs at home.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    911
    At 75yds, and from reading a few of your previous posts on other threads, if that meth dealer ever shows up, run a good 5-7yds away from your family and get down into a prone position, then return/comence firing - well aimed shots, no spray and pray. Have your family drilled to go away from you and to run towards the closest object that offers good cover (not concealment).

    Your wife needs a firearm, go over the reasons why she needs one again - and keep track of parole hearings.

    Since you already took a basic course, maybe take your wife and the kids to one. Valhalla is to your nort at Colorado, Gunsite is to your west in Arizona and Front Sight is a little past that over in Nevada. I know from a fact that Front Sight has the certificate deal going on, where you can buy them and practically train for free - that would be good for your wife. They have a kids self defense course that runs parallel to the dates the adult courses run so you can all go there as a family. I don't know if the others have the same offering. Do a search for posts about those training centers, there is plenty of info about them.

  5. #20
    Member Array vashooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Warrenton, VA
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    You play the field you're on. My immediate thought is: high-capacity=suppressive fire.
    Yeah right - and after you're done laying "suppressive fire" down and you send some rounds sailing into traffic, or a house behind the shooter, have fun in prison.

  6. #21
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,891

    vashooter

    concerning suppressive fire

    A lot would depend on the individual (and always unique) scenario.

    Remember that in this instance this situation goes down in a park setting. Even though it is a City Park.

    The original poster writes that this particular park is very open with basically nothing around for cover and so likely nothing to block a long view.

    So much would depend on what exactly was visible behind the intended target and how well the Good Guy shooter knew the exact layout of the surrounding area.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  7. #22
    Member Array PgSqlQuery's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    You should try to tactfully work some things out with your 8 year old.
    Don't panic the kid but, an intelligent 8 year old can sure help any situation out by being responsible for at least one of the younger ones.
    Giving your eldest child something rehearsed to do will give your entire family a slight advantage.

    The reality is that if you're out in the open and bullets are flying in your direction it's always a nasty crap-shoot & with no immediate cover available you're unfortunately at an obvious decided disadvantage.
    That is an EXCELLENT point!

    My oldest knows, if something happens, to take her siblings away from the bad stuff, preferably to the car, or, the nearest building, and demand that someone calls 911, and, not to let up until they do. Not just in the case of a firefight, but, a medical emergency, they get separated, etc.

    We've talked about it as well, Same plan as y'all. I split from the wife, and engage, while she herds the kids away. If need be, she's armed as well.

    Volume of fire's a great idea, too. If you have the capacity.
    Where's the best place to apply for your Ohio CHL?
    Find out at http://ccwhen.com! (Now with Chat!)

    Единственная реальная власть приходит из длинней винтовки.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802
    I've read all the posts on this thread and haven't seen any comments on the type of threat and how he or they are armed. I'm going to be a LOT more circumspect in my actions if I'm taking rifle fire than I am if it's a handgun or even better something doperish like full auto. Frankly I'm just not terribly concerned if the lead in the air is handgun. Of course there is always the freak accident.

    Take the Kent State shootings of 1974. The national guard were armed with (IIRC) Garands. They have hundreds of students advancing on them at near point blank range. They are given the order to lock and load by a panicky leadership. When the rounds are fired are ANY of the dead in that crowd advancing? Nope. One was killed over 400 meters away. She was just walking to her next class and had no part in the war protest whatsoever. Wrong place. Wrong time. Something like that...I'll put my trust in the Lord and carry on.

    My point is, I'm going to react differently to different threat levels.

    First off, I have to determine the nature of the attack. Is it an attempted kidnapping of my wife or a kid (well MINE is 26 and has a 357) but just say....OR is it a mugging on my person or is it one of the above with an entirely different target in the park? Why is the lead in the air? Panic shots? Or aimed fire to take out a threat? At me and mine? If I've not yet presented then I'm not the immediate threat to any punk. 50+, overweight, and slow. Hardly the Caped Crusader.

    There was a point made earlier about cover that should be re-examined. In a park setting any fold in the earth or a curb or even a light pole or mailbox can be cover. Cover is any object that will stop small arms fire. Six inches of packed dirt will stop most small arms fire. Light pole? Sure as long as it covers or deflects shots away from a vital area.

    Concealment is something else. That offers no protection except from the sights. Try laying down in a park with a lot of really tall grass. You know the kind that forms waves when the wind blows? A kid could flop down in that stuff and virtually disappear.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #24
    Member Array Geezer58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kansas (USA)
    Posts
    34
    I'm very, very uncomfortable with the whole concept of "suppressive fire" by a CCW holder in a city park.

    Everyone here should have memorized the Four Rules of Gun Safety by now. Rule #4 would seems to me to prohibit almost any use of suppressive fire tactics:
    Rule # 4 - Be absolutely sure of your target, and what is behind it.

    "Suppressive fire" to me is a Military or Law Enforcement tool, most suitable for when no innocent bystanders are around. I for one, outside of contact distance, will make every round an accurately aimed one. That should be suppression enough!

    Comments?

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802

    Wink I had the same thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer58 View Post
    I'm very, very uncomfortable with the whole concept of "suppressive fire" by a CCW holder in a city park. "Suppressive fire" to me is a Military or Law Enforcement tool, most suitable for when no innocent bystanders are around. I for one, outside of contact distance, will make every round an accurately aimed one. That should be suppression enough! Comments?
    I think you're spot on with that. "Suppressive fire?" That's a lot of lead in the air from our "side" to keep THEM from shooting at US. Note the plurals involved and the idea that there are "sides" and thus a sort of "combat situation" is very different from a lone gunman or a mugger or anything else. The only domestic (US soil) scenario in which I could envisage such an action is in a terrorist attack where there are multiple attackers and they've got full auto.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #26
    VIP Member
    Array Miggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Miami-Dade, FL
    Posts
    6,258
    The scenario lacks detail. Is the threat directly to your family? Or is it more like a gang member terrorizing the populus where you are located?
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    896
    Keep low and keep moving getting the most distance from the threat for your family.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802

    Wink Ummmmmm....NO.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
    I wish the laws allowed carry of a select-fire weapon in my state. I would.
    Class III is fun and has a specific place in tactical employment of force by civilians, law enforcement and the police. Nobody should ban this option for civilians. But street carry is absolutely not the place for full auto. Frankly if the time should come that somebody takes a shot at me, I do hope he's on full auto. I really fear the marksman who knows what he's doing and takes that single well aimed shot. Spray and pray stacks up collateral damage without increasing the body count of those who matter. Full auto is already strictly regulated by the power brokers in DC. Why do you think those who seek full and total control of the populace are always looking for the semi-auto ban? Because under 99% of circumstances possible, the semiauto is going to prove vastly more effective in finishing a fight.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802

    Wink Assumptions?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
    Family goes right, You go left. This assumes the shooter is right-handed. It's harder to accurately aim while crossing your body so your family goes right while you go left and make yourself the better target.
    This assumes that the threat is after you specifically instead of the easiest prey. They may welcome your opening the distance so they can close on the wife and kids. Arguably the woman will have money to steal, she'll be the easier to victimize and a threat to the kid can insure compliance. Of course a lot of robberies segue into a sexual assault spontaneously. If you try to lead them away and they don't take the bait, how are you going to return to a closer proximity of protection for your family once the predators have a semblance of control there?

    I think I keep my family behind me, moving in a safe direction while I cover the withdrawal as a screening force. I keep myself and my weapon between the bad guys and that which I love most. We break contact first then break visual continuity and move at right angles to the direction the threat was moving before losing sight. Folks who are untrained at the Fox/Hound game tend to think in linear fashion.

    If I can insure my family is okay and safe, I might be inclined to set a hasty ambush if I think pursuit of my family is still underway. Again, wolves like to think that they're the King of the Jungle. If you're running from them, like a wolf, the instinct is to chase. The wolf sees you fleeing in abject terror before his power. There is a great thrill to chasing down and killing prey. Ask any predator. It just never seems to occur to them that the hunter can in fact become the hunted...
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  15. #30
    VIP Member
    Array Miggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Miami-Dade, FL
    Posts
    6,258
    Ex, isn't it true that movement attracts attention? I will say that the scenario is a BG threatening several people (mass shooter type) and under the assumption that if I move, I will get the BG's attention (Specially if I am shooting back at him) I would have my family stay put. Hopefully I will either hit the guy (unlikely depending on movement and distance) or force him to take cover, waste his ammo and make him lose track of my loved ones. After that, maybe everything ends up in a stalemate (neither side moves until PD arrives) with me playing Pop Goes The Weasel or the BG decides it is better to run away.
    It is all hypothetical mind you. Nobody can say what will happen and we all know that the best laid plans go to hell after the first shot is fired.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. from fitted firm trigger cover vs. soft vs. no specific trigger cover
    By jimtem in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: December 27th, 2009, 11:38 PM
  2. Differential Cover test - The Great Diff Cover Shootout
    By Janq in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 6th, 2009, 02:51 PM
  3. Taking The Family To New Orleans To Visit Family
    By jpedone76 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: November 12th, 2007, 12:34 AM
  4. Warning - Unintended Consequences cover not family friendly
    By bobernet in forum Defensive Books, Video & References
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: July 3rd, 2007, 02:06 PM