The idea of 'fighting back to your long guns" with pistol.
This is a discussion on The idea of 'fighting back to your long guns" with pistol. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I guess it sounded tough and hardcore, so it was adopted by the suburban commandos.
Well Butter my Butt and call me Bread , after ...
July 23rd, 2007 01:59 PM
Well Butter my Butt and call me Bread , after years as a police Firearms Training Officer , and member of the tac team i now find i am a " Suburban Commando" LOL .. Hang on while i find the Laz Y boy so i can also be a " Chairborne Ranger " LMAO .
I guess it sounded tough and hardcore, so it was adopted by the suburban commandos.
Ahh well to each their own ... carry on gentlemen .
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
July 23rd, 2007 02:07 PM
Regardless of our past statuses, most of us are in fact never going to need to fight our way back to a long gun.
If your a LEO or currently in the Military, you may have to fight your way back to a long gun, by either advancing to the rearward direction to get your rifle/shotgun out of the squad car, or picking up an M16 or AK from the battle gounds.
In a civilian encounter, the odds are that your going to miles from your long guns.
If a handgun is all you'll have readily available, make the best out of it, aim center mass and put the threat down as fast as you can.
If you make it home to where your long guns are, you've just fought your way back the the long guns.
July 23rd, 2007 04:04 PM
There are actually some instances when a rifle might be the better choice and when you may have enough time to fight your way to your rifle.
Home defense is the first to come to mind. If you have a carbine-length gun chambered in .223, you have a very effective home defense weapon. The round will actually fragment more quickly and penetrate interior walls less than a typical handgun round or shotgun shell loaded with slugs or buckshot. If you’ve practiced clearing techniques you’ll be able to maneuver inside a building every bit as well with a carbine as you can with a handgun. If you haven’t practiced this, you may want to give it a try. It may be a bit of an eye opener to you.
In my part of the country we have some pretty large areas that tend to be pretty lonely. Occasionally folks will run into some unsavory characters out in the big and lonely. A particular instance that comes to mind is a fellow who did some folks in some time ago and then tried, unsuccessfully, to dispose of the bodies by blowing them up with dynamite. In this kind of situation, someone doesn’t have to be close to be a threat, if the threat has a rifle and a mean disposition. This is one reason a truck rifle is part of the standard kit I keep in my vehicle.
Another instance that comes to mind is the possibility of civil unrest brought about by a natural disaster or other cause. I’m sure the folks in New Orleans and in Los Angeles didn’t think they’d ever have a need to employ a defensive rifle, but they did. If something similar to this occurs in your neck of the woods, you may find yourself at home, but you may not. This is another reason I have a truck gun.
Add to natural disasters the possibility of terrorist attacks. Most of the scenarios I’ve seen from captured training videos show the terrorists taking over someplace like a school or a mall and then setting up an outer perimeter to take out the first responders. If you’re unlucky enough to find yourself in this kind of circumstance, you may want to use your handgun to fight your way to a rifle, but in this case it might be someone else’s rifle. You probably won’t be carrying enough ammo to keep up a viable defense until the first responders make it through.
I’m sure there are many more circumstances where you may have occasion to fight your way to a rifle, but these were the first that came to mind.
If you haven’t gained proficiency with a defensive rifle, you may want to consider it. You may also want to consider becoming familiar with the manual of arms for a few different types, in case the need arises.
"A gentleman will seldom, if ever, need a pistol. However, if he does, he needs it very badly!" -- Sir Winston Churchill
"He who goes unarmed in paradise had better be sure that is where he is." -- James Thurber
July 23rd, 2007 04:21 PM
In general terms, I agree. OTOH, if a "national emergency" was announced, and all interstate travel was stopped immediately, one could indeed be fighting to get home, since not everyone responds to crisis with grace and equanimity.
Originally Posted by JD
In general, I arm myself because my fellow man might on occasion have an egregious lapse of courtesy and common sense, and require a "notable upbraiding". My fellow man may also have friends, and basically, you don't cut a field of clover with pinky-shears.
Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
July 23rd, 2007 05:29 PM
At the moment I do not currently own any Evil Black Rifles. When I use the phrase it refers to my 870. And only in a home defence situation. I carry in the home. If I hear the sound of glass breaking I'm going to be rolling my but to my bedroom with gun in one hand and cellphone in the other. My wife keeps her pistol there and we've got the shottie as well.
As soon as I get there I will be swapping the 9mm for some 000buck. I'm going to be in my most defensable space waiting for the cops to arrive. It might take awhile but thats ok with me. None of my stuff is worth my life. They can clear my house out. Thats what homeowners insurance is for. Just don't come in my room unless you have a badge hanging from your neck. I'm not trained to clear my house and couldn't anyway. I cant get up stairs.
just my .02c
I'll be using this...
While she does this...
To those that paid for my freedom,
I WILL NEVER FORGET.
As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.
July 23rd, 2007 06:53 PM
July 23rd, 2007 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by SIXTO
July 24th, 2007 02:14 AM
Thanks to all posters. I loved the series of photos, esp with your wife as the blast is coming out of the right pistol.
Harold you wrote a very cogent post and I thought I would comment on a few things. First off, yes you are correct to assume I have little to no training with a rifle (but I am quite proficient with a handgun). Let me make that more clear, I have plenty of skill with a rifle but more in lines with stationary targets and range practice. In my original post I thought I made it clear that I completely understood that almost any rifle round trumps any handgun round. That's obvious, the main reason for my question is...can you really use a high powered rifle in house with the same efficiency and stopping power as a handgun. I've heard a .223 go off inside a small room with foam plugs and cans on and it was almost unbearable. I have no idea how you could discharge several rounds quickly in a situation like this without plugs and have any sense of coherency afterwards. This is not to say that my UPS45 would be quite by any means but at least it would be less disorienting.
Maybe with all the adrenaline you don't hear in the same way, I don't know.
Seems like it always comes back to the same arguement. Which caliber is better and which method to discharge that caliber. Obviosly the answer is dependent on the situation. For the most part I just don't see how a rifle really gives you that much advantage in close quarters. Then again, I don't know much about these things.
July 24th, 2007 12:02 PM
Ahh, that's a different question. The rifle or shotty will put your target down NOW. Greater traumatic incapacitation. Basically, if you live in an area where home-invasion tactics are common, a long gun is the optimal choice, with 3-4 BGs coming in, a good hit COM, and you won't worry about the shooting back too much.
Originally Posted by markp
If you live in an apartment, and/or "suburbia", a pistol is easier to carry about the house, penetrates less, and should be adequate formost situations.
July 24th, 2007 01:30 PM
FWIW, I've been in very small rooms with very thick mud and stone walls (read: echo chambers) when several different types of weapons were fired - 9mm, 12 gauge, 5.56N, 7.62S and 7.62N
Originally Posted by markp
to name a few. Sometimes, there was just one shot, and a few times there were dozens. All were loud. None were so loud that I was taken out of the fight, though I did experience tinnitus and headaches a few times, after all was said and done. I'm sure there has been permanent hearing loss as well, but I'm still well within the limits for military service. The short of it is - I'll take the rifle. The advantages in quickly and efficiently stopping a deadly threat more than make up for the disadvantages of possible hearing loss and headaches once the threat has passed, IMO.
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
July 24th, 2007 06:48 PM
I'd rather be deaf and alive, than dead.
Obviously, confrontations are short and chaotic, especially in a home setting where more than likely, you're scared, caught off guard, and on the defense.
If you're in a position to choose (i.e., running to the closet,) get the biggest gun you can wield confortably. Shotguns are great because even a smaller 20g can dump twice the energy of a .44mag in each shot, with less penetration than big slugs.
But if you can't choose, use what you've got. Though something like a .32 or .380 is considered "marginal," I still tend to think that it'll stop a simple criminal who isn't ready to potentially sacrifice his life for your wallet.
I live in the suburbs, not in a terrorist-infested war zone.
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