2 man team "Interviewed" me in NoVA
This is a discussion on 2 man team "Interviewed" me in NoVA within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think you did ok considering the hind site. Being a helpful citizen is getting more rare these days. Yes, Not helping out would have ...
July 25th, 2007 12:45 PM
I think you did ok considering the hind site. Being a helpful citizen is getting more rare these days. Yes, Not helping out would have been much safer. Having idiot #1 take over the jumping duty would have been slick.
Getting their Plate #'s and turning them both in would be a great follow up.
I have to wonder what in your first interview would have keyed them into thinking your a mark. Think back and try to remember what parts of the conversation made him think you were a victum.
I have been interviewed serval times, and I have found looking like your son just wrecked your Corvette helps some. Then again, being HUGE and UGLY seems to work in my favor. I just look like the scariest person at the interview.
July 25th, 2007 02:23 PM
I'm a little disappointed to hear all the 'don't help' positions. Don't take it as personal criticism, it isn't. Each of us must make that decision for themselves.
We have all seen & heard the stories about something happening to a victim & NOBODY stops to help. Society has gone from a friendly 'how do you do' place, to the ostrich's.... 'stick your head in the sand' mentality.
I'm not advocating going out & looking for a fight or confrontation. I don't go out looking for trouble, but if it comes to me....Doom on You....I'm not running from it either.
If someone asks for help, I'm going to give it.....I'll be aware of what's going on, but I will assist.
I treat everybody I meet with respect, until it's time not to.........
Ask yourself how you would feel, if you avoided a situation & those same BGs, caused mayhem on another unprepared victim. I've been there & not a day goes by that I don't feel some responsibility for my lack of action, which would have avoided a bad situation from occurring later.
from Rules for a Gun Fight:
21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Again, I'm not advocating looking for trouble! Don't put yourself in a situation where you are at the disadvantage. Know your limits.
This is why I decided to carry & TRAIN. I train often on my own & seek professional training at least twice a year. Know your limits & prepare as best you can.
Some take the stand that they will only 'protect themselves & family'.....that's fine if that's your feeling & intent. As for me, that is NOT enough. For me, deciding to carry for defense isn't JUST for my own safety, I feel some responsibility to those around where ever I am.
We carry a large responsibility when you holster a firearm & take it into public. You should treat it that way!
(see signature quotes below)
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
July 25th, 2007 06:01 PM
I agree, but neither would I more or less intentionally set out to "test" myself, under guise of helping out. Or at least that was the aroma I got... IOW, you know its a dog, do you have to poke it to see if it will bite?
Originally Posted by goawayfarm
I've helped quite a few people; if I'm being set up, I go into "get the *** out of here", or "let's get started mode".
July 25th, 2007 08:47 PM
This may give out my age but I used to ride my motorcycle to Leesburg from Fairfax just to have a few cold ones at Paynes Bar. On nice evenings ride out to Harpers Ferry afterwards. The town must have changed a lot since I was there. Never had any problems. I agree with the others, when you get that wierd feeling get out of Dodge or get ready to do battle.
July 25th, 2007 11:21 PM
Great informational story. I have never heard of this kind of elaborate 'interview' before, although I have heard of criminals working in teams. I will definitely be on my guard in the future and keep this story in the back of my mind.
I am very wary whenever I'm approached by strangers at public places like gas stations or restaurants. I've ran across a few people wanting rides or cash for 'gas', but never felt that the person was assessing me as a mark. By the way, I have yet to come across a single person asking for help who was on the up and up. The last person I helped was a guy who needed money for gas. Said he was on fumes and they had just barely made it into the gas station. I said, 'I don't have any cash for you, but I can put in a few bucks with my debit card.' So I proceed to fill up his tank, and whadya know I only get about $1.50 into the tank before it goes CLUNK. I peek inside his window and he's got a full tank. The woman behind the wheel claimed it was a new car and she didn't know where the gas gauge was...
July 26th, 2007 12:37 AM
I agree with "goawayfarm" to an extent, except in this case, the "quote/unquote" stranded motorist and lost guy looking for directions were not stranded in the middle of nowhere. They were in the parking lot of a public convience store/gas station during normal business hours, where they could have found a phone or asked for assistance by the store staff.
In those situations and again, if your "spidey sense" is tingling... why not just point them to the phone and not engage them.
Like I pointed out earlier.... what if the guy popped out of his truck after starting it with a gun in his hand 4 feet away from you, and pointed at your COM? You gonna try and draw on him at that point?
I would be rather surprised if he missed at that close range while your gun is still in the holster.
If you're lucky you'll be standing there in your shorts after the fact, with no gun, no money, and no ride going... "Damn, at least I saw that coming!" "I knew I was being interviewed!" See how prepared I was?
(And very upset cause they stole your car with a full tank of gas you just pumped for them at $3/gal. And got your gun to boot!)
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
July 26th, 2007 08:14 AM
Exact same scam happened to me. The story involved their son, who was a marine, and they're traveling to see him at their dying grandmother's house, etc etc. It's my policy never to just give someone money, but I try to help people out if I can. So, I put under a gallon of gas in this guy's tank, and then shot him a "you're busted" look. He thanked me real quick, hopped in his car, and roared off. I heard stories about the same guy pulling the same scam on people for weeks after that. Don't know if they ever caught him, though.
Originally Posted by OfClanMcnab
Looking back, I probably could have kept a closer eye on him, or thought to memorize his license plate, etc. That was before I had my CHL, and also before I developed a defense-oriented mindset.
July 26th, 2007 09:54 AM
This whole situation smells bad, starting with BG #1. When BG #2 shows up, I would have gotten out of there and called 911. Somebody's wife or daughter is probably going to get 'jacked if these guys have their way.
If I had the time, I might have cruised by there a few times to see what happens and to let them know they have been recognized for what they are.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
July 26th, 2007 10:12 AM
I don't think that your moral obligation involves walking into a trap any more than it does wandering down dark alleys to patrol for BG's or parking in the unlighted corner of the parking lot.
Originally Posted by goawayfarm
What I'm reading in this thread is not a general unwillingness to help anyone under any circumstances but rather using their "Condition Yellow" to make sure they bring themselves home to their families.
You've got several options that don't involve putting yourself in significant peril including noting their license plate and descriptions and either driving off and calling 911 or going into the gas station and calling from there.
Both are much better optinons than playing undercover car-jacking sting officer with no back-up.
"Friend, I would not harm thee for all the world, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot."--Unknown Quaker
July 26th, 2007 02:08 PM
Next time your "spidy sense" starts tingling.......listen.
Two to one isn't good at all.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
July 26th, 2007 08:44 PM
I've gotta say, after seeing guy #1 nod, I would have told guy #2 to look elsewhere for a jump. Just my opinion.
BTW, I help people if I can. But, I am always wary of someone approaching me for "help". I'm always on the lookout in case they have an accomplice. This past Sunday I was on my way to church and had to stop for gas. A guy approached me asking for money for gas to get to a town around 10 miles from where I was. As he approached I was immediately suspicious. There was just something about him - (spidey sense?). As I was on my way to church I was not carrying (not legal in church), but it was right inside the truck. I opened the door to the truck as I was telling him I didn't have any cash on me. He walked away. The very next day I was in my company truck and stopped for gas about 2 miles from the 1st gas station from the night before. This time my G23 was on my hip (concealed). I saw the same dude approaching me from across the parking lot. This time he is wearing what appears to be brand new clothes. He gets about 15 feet from me when I tell him loud and clear "I don't have anything for you!" I could tell by the expression on his face that he recognized me from the night before. He quickly turned around and found someone else across the parking lot to bother. I don't know if this guy had bad intentions or was just a professional panhandler. But considering it had been 18 hours between encounters with him and it would have taken about $1.00 for him to get home I was suspicious. Sorry if i hi-jacked thread...just relaying experience.
July 26th, 2007 11:32 PM
Looks like MLM to me...
Dude, I think they were trying to 'contact' you for Amway! Or rather, what it has become on the internet. It's called Quixtar, but you never see that until a ways down the road. I know your spidey-sense was going off, but that was their mistake in 'contacting' in pairs. Or maybe they didn't feel safe in that area alone either. This is a classic Amway/Quixtar setup. Very friendly and outgoing, sometimes even fabricating a situation to get you involved.
The nod was probably, "This guy is a good prospect - we need to continue talking to him". (Of course, that's also approximately what it would mean if they were BG's.)
When many of the people first start out, they are broke and use any of the many free services on the internet for website hosting, advertising, etc. Unfortunately, they usually just become more broke. Even though I don't think you were being interviewed by BG's (they probably have the best of intentions to help you start a business and thereby enrich themselves as well) you still definately did the right thing by scaring them off with your sidearm.
Or, on the other hand, if
1) they were BG's, and
2) you were more open to their 'opportunity', and
3) they were aware of the whole Amway/Quixtar methodology, and
4) they followed through with the charade, then ...
... they would have asked for contact info and possibly and tried to get you into a situation where you were more trusting due to familiarity - perhaps for an 'interview', maybe even in your living room. (Some people are VERY trusting - they are called 'sheep'.)
But, hey, whether it was real or not, it was a good mental exercise and practice.
July 27th, 2007 01:29 AM
I would have been gone as soon as the first guy nodded his head. Nothing more nothing less. If the gas wasn't all the way into the car yet I would have pulled out the hose put it on the rack and forgot about the receipt.
If you already gave them a "yeah I'll help" you can always pull out your phone and say, "shoot, just got a page, I'm on call, gotta go". Then try to remember plates in your head and type them into your phone when you're a decent distance away and you've verified they are not following you.
August 1st, 2007 01:53 AM
I always tell students that it is far easier to avoid conflict than it is to survive it.
You correctly spotted and identified potential conflict and instead of avoiding it, invited it.
I'm glad lady luck played in your favor.
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
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August 1st, 2007 10:40 AM
That's what I don't understand about your actions. Why didn't you leave as soon as you realized that you were being singled out and set up?
Originally Posted by sgb
Selling Amway? Come'on!!!!
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