This is a discussion on Kidnapping within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Gadfly
Then, to get my world really shizo . . . the other night Dr. Phil was doing these "set-up" stunts (like ...
July 26th, 2007 05:12 PM
In these type of threads I'm usually firmly on the side of, wait, stop and be a good witness.
Originally Posted by Gadfly
However, in this case I feel like there is very little ambiguity about what is going on here (although I would later find out in this case that it was a "prank".)
This isn't a domestic that's going to end up with some bruises and is better handled through good witnessing and reporting to the cops.
It's not a couple of drunks who I could care less if they beat the crap out of each other.
It's not even an armed robbery in which there is a good chance that if the wallet or car is given up then we can all walk away with out lives...
This is an apparent victim being dragged out of store by two men with a bag over her head. There is NO justification for anybody doing that to anyone and there would be no question in my mind that I was doing the right thing and that that apparent victim's life was in serious danger.
That's so far over the line that at that point I'm willing to make a life changing decision and come down on one or more of those idiots with just as much force as I can safely muster.
Today I happened to be searching some past posts from before I joined this forum and I found "Limamusic's" story in one of the past threads. After reading that and thinking about this current thread it really made me think and affirm that while I may have determined not to necessarily get involved in just any disturbance, if I ever have a chance to stop something along these lines, as I said, I'm willing to take the consequences for my actions.
"Friend, I would not harm thee for all the world, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot."--Unknown Quaker
July 26th, 2007 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by Serenity
July 27th, 2007 12:48 AM
I Firmly Agree. Having seen the Tape I would have been clearing leather.
Originally Posted by Serenity
As one who sets up these Video Scavenger hunts for a youth group I am shocked and appalled that some stupid sheep would put this as part of their hunt.
"The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."
-James Earl Jones
July 27th, 2007 12:54 AM
I have no children and I know my wife would be ok. If I ended up in jail over my actions, That's OK with me. If in front of the car they would face a drawn weapon and hope they come to a stop quickly.
If from the back Get the Licence plate and call immediatly.
If I'm in my car I will block as effectivly as possible.
The PIT manuver is very effective. If behind I would call the police on speaker phone and give description of the vehicle, plates, direction, and location. Then staying on speaker its time to put them in the ditch. As I drive an import I doubt they would expect it or be watching for it. We used to practice it at my friends dad's junkyard. Its very simple to do once you figure it out.
To those that paid for my freedom,
I WILL NEVER FORGET.
As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.
July 27th, 2007 01:27 AM
I think I'd have to agree with your every observation and sequence. I'm thinking that the only thing I might add is that if I'm within a matter of feet from the vehicle I might try and take a shot at a tire. If it was near point blank. I use MagSafe so I wouldn't be too worried about a miss since the muzzle is pretty sharply depressed downward and for the same reason I'm not worried about a richochet. It would seem to me that taking out a tire puts them on foot and that's hard to muster with an unwilling hostage. If it turns out to be a sick prank, none of them are dead unless they wreck the car badly and I'm still justified taking the shot in defense of a 3rd.
Originally Posted by Bob The Great
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
July 27th, 2007 02:14 AM
Pranks can be funny...waterballoon on someone's seat before they sit down. And pranks can be as real as it gets. Doing things like this is a very bad idea in any situation whether that be Dr. Pill or Harpo or some stupid highschooler. We don't need to test people like this because we already know that the response is...is...is... Yep that was it, nothing. I've seen plenty of weird things or domestics and nobody does a thing.
Someone is going to get really hurt when one of these pranks catches up with them.
Anyone remember the case of those kids shooting a bunch of people with paintball guns. If I remember correctly they got in a fair amount of trouble, perhaps that sort of thing has happend again but for the most part I believe people realize that doing stuff like that will be taken very seriously. I would hate to be put in a situation like that.
July 27th, 2007 11:57 PM
have some one call the police. I would try to stop them if they got away and follow them while giving the police the diection on where they are going.
July 28th, 2007 01:47 AM
A friend in the Army tells me it's possible that if you shoot and hit a moving tire the rotation of it can deflect the bullet and stop it from penetrating the tire. That, plus the fact that it'd be hard to hit a small target like that, especially if moving makes shooting tires a less effective option. The Army trains to kill the driver in order to stop a moving vehicle. I am compelled to agree with that approach. From what I gather of the scenario it would be very possible that you could get a shot at the driver without putting the victim at risk (the victim is probably being forced into a rear door).
Originally Posted by LBrombach
My plan would probably be to shoot the driver in a situation like that. Doing so slows the perps down, with less risk to the victim. Taking the driver out of action would also disrupt the whole flow of the operation and possibly cause the other perps to panic, maybe (with luck) causing them to surrender. If I did successfully incapacitate the driver I suppose I would then order everyone out of the vehicle with their hands up. If another perp moves to the driver's seat he will meet the same fate. But as they say I'd have to play it as it unfolds.
I too have recently read limatunes' story and it has strengthened my resolve to do everything in my power to stop that kind of horror from happening to anyone.
July 28th, 2007 01:56 PM
As most of you know, I have 5 children ranging in age from the oldest who is 16 to the youngest, 5 year old twins.
In a situation such as this I could not tell you exactly what I would do because as in most situations, you have to be there to know how you will react. But, I can say this, if I was close to the abduction, and by close I mean I was the next person out the door just feet away I have to think I would engage the bad guys.
I like to think of myself as a fairly indifferent person. I do not get involved in my co-workers lives. I do not give money to homeless beggars, and I would try to be a good witness in almost every other situation as I believe that my primary reasons for carrying a firearm are the protection of my family and my life. But, I do not think I could live with myself if I was right there when a child / person was abducted and I did nothing. Then to see that the abducted persons body was found later in some remote spot, murdered. I don't think I could take that.
So I believe it likely that I would engage the bad guys and try to stop the abduction, especially if it is a child being abducted.
If it turned out to be some idiots pulling a prank, that would be too bad but that is not something I am going to hesitate and think about when I see someone possibly being carted off to their ultimate demise at the hands of a sexual sadist and murderer.
But that is just me....
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