This is a discussion on Kidnapping within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As usual I got up and turned on the local news this morning and I saw surveillance video of a Prank Kidnaping at some store ...
July 26th, 2007 09:19 AM
As usual I got up and turned on the local news this morning and I saw surveillance video of a Prank Kidnaping at some store (maybe a walmart or a grocery store). Two teenagers came up behind a teenage girl, threw a cloth bag over her head, scooped her up and put her(screaming!) in an suv that screeched to a stop in front of the store. So there are at least three possible BG's and a victim. What would you do? Now, I know that all depends on your location, so say you are walking out behind them or you are walking in the other door. If your in the lot you can only be a good whitness, shooting at a moving viehicle in a crowded parking lot with a victim inside is not an option, but I have seen two many stories of young women being taken an nobody does anything. Oh! there was a Man with his young son right in front of the kidnapers, it looked like he protected his son and moved out of the way allowing the kidapers to get to the suv. I can't blame him I would have protected my family first also. This was a Prank but it looked real enough to me. FYI, I looked around YouTube and this seems to be a trend.
July 26th, 2007 09:19 AM
July 26th, 2007 09:36 AM
Wow. The stupidity level just keeps growing.
It seems to me it is a matter of time before some kid pulling one of these gets seriously hurt or killed.
Be it an unarmed bystander who grabs a convenient blunt instrument and brains one of these idiots or a lawfully armed citizen or plainclothes officer who shoots one, it seems inevitable that this "prank" is going to go very badly one of these days.
I would not blame anyone for using any degree of force to stop this event. We've seen too many stories where these kidnap victims are never seen alive again.
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
July 26th, 2007 10:44 AM
I have 3 daughters and 5 granddaughters - I am afraid it would have been their very last 'prank'.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
July 26th, 2007 11:26 AM
I would hope that I'd react fast enough to do something in that case. It doesn't sound like there is much opportunity to bring a firearm into play with any degree of security that you won't kill the victim as well so I guess I'd have to hope for an opening to physically restrain or attack the BG's or perhaps take the chance of blocking their way with a brandished firearm knowing full well that because of the victim I'm full of bluff at the moment.
I'm not sure what I'd do. I'd be hoping for divine inspiration.
I hope that people who have this kind of crap pulled on them have enough sense to prosecute these idiots to the full extent of the law...and I hope that we have laws that will significantly punish people for "practical jokes" that have this potential to terrorize the victims and bystanders.
"Friend, I would not harm thee for all the world, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot."--Unknown Quaker
July 26th, 2007 11:28 AM
Ditto. Very dead, very fast.
Originally Posted by obxned
July 26th, 2007 11:29 AM
depends on my position in relation to the "kidnapping". If I were off to the side or some distance away, I really don't think I could have done a thing except write down the license plate and call 911 with a description of the van and the last road I saw them on.
If I ended up between the 'nappers and their van, I'd have to make some quick decisions. If I were with my gf, my first concern would be to get her out of the way, and by that time, I'm sure the van would be screeching off, and we revert to the call 911 action.
If I'm alone, I can't say exactly what would happen. It would depend on my position and surroundings. I know for a fact kidnapping is specifically named as justification for deadly force in self-defense (at least here), and deadly force in defense of a 3rd person is legal as well. I'd have to play it as I see it.
July 26th, 2007 11:44 AM
This has brought up a question I have asked myself: how do you stop a vehicle without shooting into it. I don't know about shooting the tires. I shot one once and my .22 round just bounced off and whizzed past my ear. That tire was deflated, that may have made a difference. It's also possible to keep driving with a flat. The only other way I can think of is go for the radiator. The car WILL stop (in a while), but it'd probably be the rare occasion that you are in front of a fleeing car.
July 26th, 2007 01:27 PM
That would be a BAD situation if I were in a position to render assistience.......at the very least I'd be the best witness possiable......perhaps even following the vehicle while on the phone w/911.
I've got two daughters and I'd wish/hope SOMEBODY would have the testicales to do at least likewise if it happened to mine.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
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July 26th, 2007 01:52 PM
My take entirely Bob - always has to be due to infinite number of potential variables.
I'd have to play it as I see it.
Good witness is very important but - the other thing is a skillfull abduction can be carried out VERY fast - not much time for decision-making or even calling in until after it's over.
Not a good situation at all.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
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July 26th, 2007 02:01 PM
Depends upon the 'specific' situation and my exact position. I saw the vid on TV. If a CCW individual had be standing right outside the door, perhaps the presentation of a firearm in the kidnappers face would have stopped the action...but this is a tough call.
It would really bother me if I had stood there and watched this happen (without any action) and then see a body on the news a week later.
I really don't want to be a 'hero' or get involved, but this vid pushed the limits of my heart strings...I have children too!
Stupid, stupid kids...
"That I cannot do."
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Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
July 26th, 2007 04:16 PM
This is the reason I hated the movie "Old School." They did this to their frat pledges. Meanwhile in my mind I'm imagining clearing leather on these idiots. In AZ, deadly force is authorized to prevent kidnapping. I'm not sure I would use it right off the bat but seeing something go down like this??? I'm sure not going to sit by and watch someone get taken. I have my own personal reasons.
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July 26th, 2007 04:21 PM
July 26th, 2007 04:25 PM
It is totally situationaly dependent.
Kids are kids, I did stupid stuff when I was a teenager and I'm sure my son will do stupid stuff too. I just hope I instill enough responibility into him that he can realize the potential consquences of his actions.
Noli nothis permittere te terere
Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.
July 26th, 2007 04:32 PM
I saw it on the news too and the reporters said something to the effect of how this could illicit a response from a bystander that they would not like. If I was in a position to try and stop them I would have as it would have been impossible for me to know it was a prank. Shooting is a last resort so hopefully they would explain themselves long before it came to that.
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Utah Permit Certified Instructor
July 26th, 2007 04:58 PM
It's a bizarro world we live in these days. I'd feel like a schmuck if I stood by and did nothing--especially if it was the real deal. Then again, what if it turned out I wasted one of these future politicians over a prank gone bad. I'd be on TV as the "gun nut" who took out someone's dearest blah-blah-blah. Let the lawsuits begin.
Then, to get my world really shizo . . . the other night Dr. Phil was doing these "set-up" stunts (like a couple loudly arguing and even grabbing/pushing on the sidewalk) to see if anyone would get involved. I'm nearly shouting at the TV. "YOU jump in, you Orah-loving dork, and see if you don't get your ***** shot!" Gimme a break! This idiot thinks he's doing a public service by suggesting that people should get into the middle of a "domestic". Even cops fear that.
So, it all depends. Does it feel real? Do *I* feel threatened? Am I about to be the good guy or a future defendent?
P.S. They make all kinds of stupid stuff felonies--why not for staging a violent crime in a public place? Wouldn't that fall under current "terrorism" laws??
Don't forget to bow as the chariot passes.
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