Sorry to bring up the dog thing, but this is a bit different

This is a discussion on Sorry to bring up the dog thing, but this is a bit different within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There is a great article in Police and Security News this month (volum 23 Issue 4) about self-defense against a viscious dog attack. Loren Christiansen ...

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Thread: Sorry to bring up the dog thing, but this is a bit different

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Whoa...

    There is a great article in Police and Security News this month (volum 23 Issue 4) about self-defense against a viscious dog attack. Loren Christiansen was an MP dog handler who patrolled the Florida Everglades with his German shepherd.

    "...Army dogs learn to be a one-handler dog, meaning anyone else who ventures near is likely to have German shepherd trot off with a chunk of his ripped out lung. We kept our distance from our buddies' dogs.

    ...we trained regularly with our dogs to hone attack skills...and in today's vernacular, the dogs found a 'zone' where all the he had on his mind was killing. Though domesticated, his ancient brain is greatly agitated, and his brain commands chomp legs, chop legs now

    This is a great article, I highly suggest reading it. Due respect to those who say they haven't any fear of a dog. I submit to you that you've not been attacked by a trained attacker before, and perhaps this article will safe your life someday if your do find yourself on the receiving end of a pair of those kind of jaws.

    If you hestitate, you're dead. If deterring the attack won't work, I'd (regrettably) shoot the dog and would not stop pulling the trigger until it was down. If my pet pit suddenly ran at a police officer (or anyone, for that matter) and I didn't have control of the dog, I'd have to understand that a dead dog might be the consequence. My dog is a big schmooze, but doesn't LOOK like it. I'd NOT wait for his jaws around my throat to learn if he meant business.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Are we talking about toy poodle or a wolf/dog cross? That would make a big difference.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    Are we talking about toy poodle or a wolf/dog cross? That would make a big difference.
    That would make a big difference. I'm thinking about a dog that looks like it could some some serious damage, everyone chooses for themselves what that dog is. For me thats a pretty big dog, but for a diabetic with lousy bloodflow to the legs/feet, a little yapper might cause a would that would never heal and be a likely cause for debiilitating or even fatal infection.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Van View Post
    I submit to you that you've not been attacked by a trained attacker before, and perhaps this article will safe your life someday if your do find yourself on the receiving end of a pair of those kind of jaws.

    If you hestitate, you're dead. If deterring the attack won't work, I'd (regrettably) shoot the dog and would not stop pulling the trigger until it was down. If my pet pit suddenly ran at a police officer (or anyone, for that matter) and I didn't have control of the dog, I'd have to understand that a dead dog might be the consequence. My dog is a big schmooze, but doesn't LOOK like it. I'd NOT wait for his jaws around my throat to learn if he meant business.

    Good post, thanks.

    And absolutely on the trained attacker, if it appeared that someone sent a dog at me there is no hesitating. (since the question of wether he means business or not has been answered).
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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Interesting footnote -

    Statistics about dogs obviously aren't what this forum is intended for, so this is the last I'll say (and include a brief apology to our host )...

    "The dog that bites more people in the US than any other (as of last year) is a Cocker Spaniel." That is what everyone spews in most offices around the US. Who CARES??

    A 20-year study just released by the Centers For Disease Control show that there are 4.7 million reported dog bites in the US per year at the cost of $317.2 million in 2005. Half of those injuries occur on the owner's property. According to the study of dog-bite related fatalities, here are the dogs most responsible, in descending order...

    Pit Bull, Rott, German shepherd, Husky, Malamute, Doberman pinscher, Chow Chow, Great Dane, Saint Bernard

    Kinda' suprised about that last one, actually...

    Anyway, fun reading everyone's take, and obviously I'm a dog guy. My pooch is #1 on that list above, and I'm sorry to see him get such a bad rap. I won't get into 'sweet pooch' talk. Suffice to say he's a really nice dog. HOWEVER, he is still VERY capable of delivering massive damage with a single, lightening-fast bite. He can break bone and tear flesh because that is what he's genetically designed to do. That is why the onus is on ME to keep every other person in the world safe from MY dog. If he gets shot or otherwise hurt because I'm not in control, it is my fault. And heaven help me if he ever hurt anyone.

    He's 11, and getting cranky. I don't let him around my toddler neices and nefews. If he is in the room, I'm holding the kid. Better, in the winter, I fire up the wood stove on the enclosed porch for him. In the summer, the AC is cranked out there for him with a huge dish o' water. Everything is cool and there is NO chance that my family will end up as a statistic.

    Like gun ownership, dog ownership comes with great responsibility.



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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    ......long enough to draw and ram my pistol under his ribcage.....
    Actually, doing that with an autoloader could push it out if battery slightly. Many autoloaders will not fire in this condition. Try it with your (obviously unloaded!) gun. Push it firmly against something and see if it works.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Van View Post
    According to the study of dog-bite related fatalities, here are the dogs most responsible, in descending order...

    Pit Bull, Rott, German shepherd, Husky, Malamute, Doberman pinscher, Chow Chow, Great Dane, Saint Bernard

    Kinda' suprised about that last one, actually...
    Ever seen Cujo?

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
    Actually, doing that with an autoloader could push it out if battery slightly. Many autoloaders will not fire in this condition. Try it with your (obviously unloaded!) gun. Push it firmly against something and see if it works.
    This is true, also to add(while unloaded) try it against something softer , like a mattress. A flat table or such may not push it out of battery, a softer surface may.
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  10. #24
    Member Array KMBRTAC45's Avatar
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    As was already said there are some great replys here.

    I have done decoy work(2.5 yrs) for a trainer in the greater Pheonix area, so I've taken a TON of bites from German Shepherds, Rotties, Belgian Malinois and others(never a Pitt, he refused to train them).All of the dogs were trained to continue the attack even if shots are fired, we used a CZ52 as our training gun. Most of the large breeds will launch at you from a few feet away. If I were being attacked by a medium-large dog I would wait to see if they were going to go airborne or not. If airborne dogs are not really that hard to get hold of and redirect away from your face/throat area to the ground and then throw a few kicks to the ribs(had to do this with my Wolf Hybrid that I had). If it is a protection/attack trained dog you better not let go. If the owner is near by hold the dog until they can take control, if they are not around then I would have to neutralize the threat.

    As for people of advanced age or with disabilities, their options are limited. If mace or OC or a cane or any other non-firearm weapon does'nt work what other choice do you have but to draw and fire!
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  11. #25
    Member Array spurs06's Avatar
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    Dog Attack.

    That’s what happened to me! The dog got loose from its owner and charged across the street, not barking but with a deep growl, teeth showing and tail down. I recognized the signals and prepared for the attack, waving my arms and shouting at the dog while slowly backing away – never breaking eye contact. I knew he was going to go for me and he did. From about two paces away, he braced himself and launched at my throat. I was able to deflect the first vicious attack and knocked the dog to the side with no damage other than a torn shirt. He hit the ground, regained his feet and wheeled for another attack. My wits now about me I prepared for the onslaught by adopting the “pluck needle from the bottom of the sea” posture and was able to catch him with not only a solid punch to the underside but using his momentum, propelled him over my shoulder onto the asphalt of the street. The dog would not quit! He again gained his feet and attacked. I was forced to draw my trusty Kimber and unloaded a magazine into the raging beast just as he braced for his third and most probably fatal attack.


    After hearing my story, the awe-struck policeman said that he had never seen a tea-cup poodle hit with seven .45 cal hollow-points. He then cited me for creating a pothole in the street and walked into the sunset…

    Sorry Mr. Brombach...I just couldn't resist.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spurs06 View Post
    That’s what happened to me! The dog got loose from its owner and charged across the street, not barking but with a deep growl, teeth showing and tail down. I recognized the signals and prepared for the attack, waving my arms and shouting at the dog while slowly backing away – never breaking eye contact. I knew he was going to go for me and he did. From about two paces away, he braced himself and launched at my throat. I was able to deflect the first vicious attack and knocked the dog to the side with no damage other than a torn shirt. He hit the ground, regained his feet and wheeled for another attack. My wits now about me I prepared for the onslaught by adopting the “pluck needle from the bottom of the sea” posture and was able to catch him with not only a solid punch to the underside but using his momentum, propelled him over my shoulder onto the asphalt of the street. The dog would not quit! He again gained his feet and attacked. I was forced to draw my trusty Kimber and unloaded a magazine into the raging beast just as he braced for his third and most probably fatal attack.


    After hearing my story, the awe-struck policeman said that he had never seen a tea-cup poodle hit with seven .45 cal hollow-points. He then cited me for creating a pothole in the street and walked into the sunset…

    Sorry Mr. Brombach...I just couldn't resist.

  13. #27
    Member Array vanilla_gorilla's Avatar
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    OK, I laughed too.

    If the dog is large enough to do damage to me, like a full-sized breed, I will make every effort to loose the first round into it before it leps the first time. If it's merely bluffing, it's very likely that the dog will be staring into a 1911 until some other resolution can be obtained.
    I'll take a .45 and a large side of JHPs, please.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Very Nice, Spurs
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  15. #29
    Member Array austin's Avatar
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    Step aside at the last minute and draw. If the dog comes back around, start shooting.

  16. #30
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    Exclamation Cujo GOT NO mojo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
    Ever seen Cujo?
    That was the stupidest movie I've ever seen. Could have been done as a short film: Dog attacks stranded motorist. Motorist draws 45 and kills dog. Uses cell phone to call for a tow and then to call for a cleanup on the side of the road. Roll credits....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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