August 14th, 2007 01:25 AM
shotgun with #4 or 6 shot does the same thing as a slug at close range and will be safer for the neighbors.
You don't need to be walking all thru your house so length should be a issue, if you do have to go get someone take the handgun and get back the shotgun.
Its may be your house but the advantage is still in the BG favor because he knows your coming so for me clearing the house alone is not an option besides thats what I pay taxes for the LEO can do it.
August 14th, 2007 05:10 AM
Well, there are handguns stashed in a few places, and rifles in a couple, but my preference is still a shotgun. The handguns provide a way to make sure I can get to the shotguns.
Add on one of these for $15, and you're all set for dealing with just nearly anything that might break in.
Overpenetration isn't a serious issue out here, since it would have to exit our house, and make it into theirs, and I don't see even the magnum 000 buck having much punch left after an exterior wall, 150 yards (minimum, the next closest neighbor is about 300, and both have brick houses) and another exterior wall.
OTOH, since my wife doesn't much care for 12ga recoil, I'm thinking of getting another of those lights for her .243. That might take it to the point of dangerous overpenetration, but we'll be moving to a spot with even better conditions (ridge between us and the only neighbor less than 400 yards away) as soon as we can get a house built.
FWIW, the light is definitely no Surefire, but it's more than I expected for the money; 9 LEDs, and painful to look into in normal room lighting. I may put one on my .22WMR skunk remover too.
I guess what it comes down to is that I'll use what I can get my hands on, with a preference for the shotgun.
August 14th, 2007 12:38 PM
My home defense setup is handgun (1911) first, then AR-15 SBR. I personally prefer the AR to the shotgun. The short-barreled M4 configuration is very handy, even in close quarters.
My young bride has her FN-P9 and Mossberg 500. Between the two of us, we should be able to cover all the bases. Here's a couple of pics:
I've since added a Surefire to the AR:
The Desert Warrior w/ Insight M3X is always within reach at night. I also have a Surefire G2Z that lives on my nightstand.
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
August 14th, 2007 01:12 PM
Just say no to birdshot and slugs for home defense!
I respectfully disagree with the claim the bird shot is as effective as a slug. Here is why:
This article aptly describes the different types of shotgun ammunition and its application to civilian home defense. Please read! It is highly valuable information to all who use a shotgun for home defense:
Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition
If you have decided not to read this article, the International Wound Ballistics Association recommends #1 buckshot be used to provide the penetration needed without fear of dangerous overpenetration. They found it to be superior to all other shotgun ammunition.
Quoted from article: "...the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body."
This tactical brief argues that neither birdshot nor slugs should be used for home defense. Birdshot does not penetrate enough and slugs tend to overpentrate with too much remaining energy.
These two images show the difference between a slug and #4 buckshot.
Please do not confuse #4 birdshot and #4 buckshot. There is a difference in diameter and weight between the two types of shot. The image above is buckshot, not birdshot. Even with #4 buckshot, the penetration is only 27cm(9+ inches). The slug is 36cm(14+ inches).
Here is another article that may be of interest:
Federal Personal Defense Shotshell Performance Data
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs13.htm#Federal PD Shotshell
On my soapbox for a moment, I would like to say; we need to research throughly, our choice of shotgun ammunition and then once we have made our decision, we need to train with our shotgun. Just because it is a shotgun, doesn't mean that training is not required. We practice and train with rifles and handguns, shotguns should not be the exception. Okay, I am off the soapbox.
Hope these articles help in your home defense decisions.
Stay safe guys and gals.
Last edited by Shotgun Willie; August 14th, 2007 at 01:26 PM.
HK USP .45
HK P2000sk .40
August 14th, 2007 01:56 PM
i think a relatively short barreled pistol grip shotgun is best for a single invader. if you get these small gangs doing a home invasion (basically a raid) that are becoming more and more popular, a sustained firefight is possible. you'll probably need more than a shotgun magazine will hold.
problem is we don't know which we might face...that's why i have several options, at various placements throughout the house.
War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill
August 14th, 2007 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by mcp1810
Then your safe room will be your kids room, there is where you should have your big weapons...
August 14th, 2007 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by pgrass101
Glock on the night stand with a mounted light and 590 pump in safe in closet -both opened before going to bed.....A quote I once heard "pistols are for fighting your way to your shotgun or rifle".
August 14th, 2007 07:17 PM
LOL yea but you'd be famous
Originally Posted by vashooter
August 14th, 2007 09:04 PM
I was personally witness to a burglary that was a committed by no less than six perps who made actual entry and at least three look-outs just across the street that I could observe.
Because of this, my 590A1 w/ taclight loaded with 00 buck is my go-to choice for any "what the hell was that?!" noises in the night. Regular ole "was that the cat?" noises get the 1911 treatment.
Last edited by Creature; August 15th, 2007 at 12:15 PM.
August 14th, 2007 09:16 PM
The shotgun with buckshot is my choice and this website had a lot to do with that choice. You will find an opinion on birdshot here as well. "Birdshot is for little birds." http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!
FOUR BOXES KEEP US FREE:  SOAP  BALLOT  JURY  AMMO!
August 14th, 2007 10:55 PM
Yes, thank you! I knew there was another site that supported my comments. This also illustrates the point I was trying to make. Leave the birdshot alone.
HK USP .45
HK P2000sk .40
August 15th, 2007 09:10 AM
.45 on the nightstand and a 870 a few feet away. I have the 870 loaded with 3 00 buckshot followed by 3 slugs.
August 15th, 2007 05:56 PM
Why Not???? I've seen myself do it hundreds of times!
Originally Posted by gwhall57
Honestly, I don't have kids to worry about so my plan probably won't work for those of you protecting a herd but my wife and I have prepared for these situations, and once, when a rare shooting occurred in a neighbors backyard, the plan was put into action.
When something happens, the wife takes her cell phone and goes into her walk in closet where my Mossberg Issued Insurance Policy awaits. She knows that if anyone comes into her closet unannounced she is to shoot without hesitation.
I clear the house with my handgun(s) as I find them easier to maneuver with. There is a second Mossy in my office that I can retreat to if necessary.
The only problem is deactivating DefCon 1 with the wife. The agreement her and I have is that anyone who comes into the closet she is to shoot. So prior to me going back in the master bedroom, I have to talk her down from the hallway.
We have the luxury of being pretty close to the 20 or so Police Officers in our town and chances are one of the ones she knows quite well will be working if something ever happened so it is possible that a few of them could talk her down, but if something happens to me, it will be hell getting my wife out of the closet.
Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!
"Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell
August 15th, 2007 06:28 PM
Nitpicky note: DefCon 5 is the lowest state of readiness. I think you mean DefCon 1.
Originally Posted by BigEFan
August 15th, 2007 06:55 PM
There are two pistols on the headboard for me and SWMBO and leaning near the bed are an AR and a cut down A5 Browning 12 ga. What gets used by whom and when depends on the situation .
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
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