Front Sight or Threat?

[ExSoldier]

Lots of both good and bad advice in this thread.

Mother nature is going to dictate that you focus on the threat. Good training will dictate that the threat will come from the hands.

ONCE THE DECISION TO SHOOT had been made you must then FOCUS on your sights.

You can not miss fast enough to win.

Every police involved shooting study I have ever read indicates that the cops who scored first shot solid torso hits also distinctly remembered seeing their front sights as the shot is tripped. That's also how I was trained both by the US Army and the NRA: If you see your front sight clearly and you see the target (fuzzy) you will hit.

As in everything, shot placement and ammo configuration is everything. The military is screaming that they need a return to the 45 ACP. That's because they HAVE to use ball ammo according to the rules of land warfare established by the Hague Convention (IIRC). All things being equal, a 45 ball load is going to be much more effective than any 9mm ball load. However, switch to state of the art JHPs and the differences drop dramatically.

I'm not certain what bad advice has been given on this thread. Most folks seem to have well reasoned and experienced suggestions each coming from his own unique background and level of training and experience.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[QKShooter]

Can a defensive shooter be trained to always reference the front sight before pulling the trigger on a known deadly threat? No matter how stressful the scenario and no matter how high the body adrenaline level is? Of Course.

And if that is what a person needs to do to secure a solid hit then (by all means) train hard to do it and then you'll do it.

Naturally the human eye cannot FOCUS with crystal clarity simultaneously on both the front sight and the threat.
Our eyes don't work that way and it's not possible.
Both will not be in focus at exactly the same time.
The front sight will be crisp and the threat will be blurred.
That's just the way it is.

[Joshua M. Smith]

You know, I read that Massad Ayoob and others were experimenting with large doses of injected pseudoephedrine HCL at their training facility to simulate an adrenaline dump. Paramedics were on scene. They believed that, if worked into the curricullum, that it would benefit advanced students.

I believe they also experimented with stun guns for the same effect.

I don't recommend any of this - I still run if I want an adrenaline dump - but it's interested to note their observations. They were, for one, unable to get a clear front site picture. This is why I say put the fuzzy front site on the target.

This is what I did when the dogs attacked.

To the gent who mentioned it: This was a bright overcast cold winter's day. Also, I've begun shooting at ground targets. I cannot wingshoot at all. I've tried that off and on for years.

Josh <><

[ccw9mm]

Lots of both good and bad advice in this thread.

By all means, specify, if mistakes or bad advice have been suggested.

[BigDave]

Earlier this year and then again last weekend I attended a training class that involved a Fire Arms Training Simulator (FATS) after an in depth lectures about Legal use of Force and Personal Protection.

During the use of the trainer many students experience many of the symptoms of an incident, elevated heart rate, tunnel vision, hearing, memory was affected, hyperventilate or holding your breath, sweating and tachypsychia.

This is not the real thing but as close as we can prepare ourselves.
I believe that when it comes down to reacting to different situations we respond to what we have learned during our life time, this is how we know we are in danger or safe and how we respond.

A learned behavior is done by repeated exposure to stimuli and when confronted with a situation you try and draw from past experiences to respond properly.
Seek Professional Training for Self Defense and Practice as this is how we train ourselves in preforming in stressful conditions.

What I have picked up is that when confronted into a self defense situation the OODA Loop (observed, orient, decide and act) comes into play as this is how we come to make our choice to flight or flight.

During the training classes when I did not take that fraction of a second to put that front sight on the target it took several shots and the threat continued to advance, when I put the front site on the target the threat was stopped much sooner and usually with in 2 shots.

Thus my choice is to use the OODA Loop and if I choose to act then front sight on target and end the threat.

What ever choice you make, just make sure you are all in or all out.

[limatunes]

This is all a lot of information to consider and take in, certainly.

I've done quite a bit of point shooting/instinctive shooting and I've yet to have a round unaccounted for on the targets (now watch that change after that statement ).

I'll admit that I have a "problem" with focusing on the target more than I focus on the front sight. I still do well, but I know I do better (as far as target shooting is concerned) when I focus on the front sight.

I'm hearing a lot of advice and I'm really not sure which road to take. While doing moving and shooting with multiple targets at multiple distances I did concentrate more on my front sights, but, again, those weren't people. They were targets. It was easy to block them out.

However, I want to be realistic. I think that if forced to draw on a human my focus would be on them. Of course I could be wrong and I could find the situation to be all over and that I did focus on my sights as I was trained, but I think only experience will tell that tale.

Thanks for all the advice....

[Rob72]

I'm hearing a lot of advice and I'm really not sure which road to take.

It's "both"! Seriously, "where the eyes go, the shots will follow"-as long as you have the weapon in your field of view. Practice will improve your accuracy. This gets back to Applegate's later modification of his point-shooting stance. As I stated, I like the XS sights because it is easier to focus on the target, and still have a sight picture (though my "picture" is nothing more than a fuzzy orb covering the place I want to make holes).

Attention (at least for me) has to stay on the target, which is why I always had my sights hitting "low", prior to using XS- I was using shoot through-the-dot with a smaller setup.

This may sound corny, but watch some of Steven Seagal's older movies. Regardless of the fruit-loop he's become, the SOB can shoot, and his high-floating, slightly canted grip is legitimate. If you are at something beyond 5 paces, and therefore have the time and space for a real sight pic, a variation of it allows almost total peripheral vision coverage, while keeping the pistol in your FOV, and oriented to your torso. Airsoft would be a good thing, if you don't already.

[BigDave]

Another way to practice at this is to use airsoft pistols and find a few other others serious about self defense then you can setup a more realistic scenarios.

[semperfi.45]

as long as you have the weapon in your field of view.

It's referred to as "meat and metal".

[kavity]

I utilize a grip technique that was taught to me by Tom Perroni. It's incredible and I can point my gun exactly where I want without having to sight a thing. I shoot 2inch groups that way consistently.

I am not really sure the etiquette on divulging his training secrets so I won't. You'll have to go to his class to learn that one ;)

[DCJS Instructor]

Kavity-

You have a PM!

Tom

[semperfi.45]

Are there really any "training secrets"? IMO there is not a whole lot of new concepts in the handgun field, just variations of the same old stuff.

[limatunes]

I do have a couple of classes coming up this fall and hopefully with more practice and training I'll get it right.

[Dakotaranger]

I just received my Wildwest mag. This issue had an article on Bat Masterson's Colts. He had some interesting specifications for his pistols including a larger front sight.

What I gathered from the piece was if real gunfighters were concerned with seeing the frontsight I probably better work harder on focusing the front sight while I focus on the threat.

[DCJS Instructor]

Are there really any "training secrets"? IMO there is not a whole lot of new concepts in the handgun field, just variations of the same old stuff.

I would be more than happy to teach you! (My way of training)

P.S. I teach LEO's as well so you are welcome to come!


Tom Perroni
www.perronitactical.com
www.blackwaterusa.com
www.goldensealeterprises.com