Front Sight or Threat?
This is a discussion on Front Sight or Threat? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by limatunes
I do have a couple of classes coming up this fall and hopefully with more practice and training I'll get it ...
August 2nd, 2007 08:13 AM
IMHO there is no such thing as bad training. Some training is better than others. However I teach my students to train with as many different Instructors as they can so that they can get a diverse training background. I will never say this is the ONLY way to do this, I will show them many different ways and let them use the one way that works for them.
Originally Posted by limatunes
Remember also that you need more than handgun training, make sure your tactical tool box is full: H2H, Shotgun, Long Gun, Combat Mindset.
Just my $0.02
August 2nd, 2007 08:33 AM
Originally Posted by Dakotaranger
Not a bad idea!
Dry practice is the key.....Front Sight Press! WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
It means put the front sight directly over the target and focus on the leading edge or very top of the Front Sight (Not the White Dot) line it up with the rear sight (Same hight all the way across) make sure you have the same amount of light on both sides left &r ight of the rear sight. Press all the slack out of the trigger and continue that press to the rear in one smooth motion while focusing on the front sight. As you press the trigger focus on the front sight everything else should be blurry. The shot will break and it should be a suprise. Ponit of Aim is Point of Impact where ever the front sight is the bullet will impact.
P.S. This is a secret so don't tell anyone!
August 2nd, 2007 11:40 AM
i would focus on the threat and make sure theres a little red dot on him/her.
August 2nd, 2007 03:38 PM
I always consider the threat an it. By the time I get to that point all considerations of humanity are gone at that moment.
Originally Posted by friesepferd
HELGA: Where are you going?
HAGAR: To sign a peace treaty with the King of England.
HELGA: Then why take all those weapons?
HAGAR: First we gotta negotiate...
August 2nd, 2007 10:26 PM
Sorry if this is covered, I had to skip ahead after reading some of the posts before I lost my train of thought.
Instinct is what it is. The amount of training and retraining necessary to overcome instinct is probably insurmountable for CCWers. Military in a war zone may be different. Training that doesn't mate with instinct is doomed to failure. I suggest:
Get some force on force equipment (like air soft) and a buddy or 2 to be the BGs. Have them assault you in different ways. Videotape if possible, maybe even a helmet cam for you. After every encounter, debrief the minute details of front sight v target. Think about COM v face & hands (lots of gunners get shot in the hand, a result of the opponent focusing on the weapon). Find out what training is available to enhance or augment your instincts. Then please tell us what you learned (I'm betting this little exercise leaves you with more research fodder)
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
August 3rd, 2007 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by Pitmaster
August 5th, 2007 02:46 AM
The ability to use the sights will be dictated by the situation that you are dealing with. Distance, your position in the reactionary curve, the urgency of the shot, the amount of ambient light, the dynamics of the movement from both parties will dictate whether you are able to get to the sights or not.
My goal is to use my sights, I have taken around fifty "sighted fire" courses with eight years of significant dedicated training to that goal. But the reality is that you will not always be able to get to your sights. You should be able to seamlessly integrate sighted and unsighted fire into one "simply shooting" concept. Both skill sets are absolutely necessary if you want to be a well rounded shooter. FOF is proving this every day. To think you have "every situation" covered with sighted fire only is a myth that has been decimated over the last couple of years.
"Front sight or threat?" The only correct answer is...... BOTH!
August 5th, 2007 01:32 PM
There ya have it !
To think you have "every situation" covered with sighted fire only is a myth that has been decimated over the last couple of years.
"Front sight or threat?" The only correct answer is...... BOTH!
hecks...the next step towards registration and confiscation.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/
August 5th, 2007 08:10 PM
I know that some of you have read this, but a good portion of you probably have not.
Originally Posted by HotGuns
Fluid Situational Response
In the world of the gun there are two types of responses to a life threatening event. The first and most popular is the conditioned response. A few examples of conditioned responses would be stand and deliver, the controlled pair, and to always make use of your sights. These are responses that we train into ourselves with the hope that when the SHTF we will default to our training and this programming will save the day.
While I was learning the Modern Techniques, (MT) I constantly questioned the logic behind many of the conditioned responses. To me, there was very little common sense attached to these conditioned responses. Even as a newbie I knew that I would never fight in this manner. It went away from the logic of all of my past experiences. As I trained and trained in the MT, I always held on to the realization the MT was just going to be a foundation, a foundation that I built my fighting style on top of.
As I progressed, I began to incorporate what I thought a common sense fighting style would entail. I began to seek out people that thought as I did. My observations were confirmed again and again by highly respected "been there done that" guys, most notably a Federal Agent that went under the handle 7677 and firearms instructor Gabe Suarez. They would write posts of their real world experience that coincided with my thoughts and observations. As my suspicions were verified, my training progressed into an area that very few people have explored. I began to embrace the second type of response, the concept of natural human response.
As I participated in and witnessed FOF encounters while training with Gabe, it became very clear that the vast majority of the people that trained on a regular basis, cast aside their training when the action was fast and close. They would default to their natural human response. They solved problems at a sub-conscious level. I witnessed many people doing things that they had never been trained to do. After the encounter I would talk to them about their response. Many of these students actually did not know what they had done to solve the problem. As I told them what they did, they would often look at me in disbelief that they reacted in that manner. This furthered my interest in the subject, which lead me to my next level of enlightenment.
I call this level fluid situational response. The concept is that you can incorporate your natural human response and your conditioned response and use them fluidly in the appropriate situation all along, what 7677 calls the "fight continuum" and what Gabe calls "progression of the fight." I know some of you will say that this does not stay within the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle, or that it does not conform to Hicks law (the more options you have, the longer it will take to access an option). IMHO this is just not so. Hicks law applies to conditioned responses, that is why you should have a mastery of a few essential techniques. Hicks law does not apply to natural human response. There is no lag time to access these responses. Your body will choose the solution to the problem in a microsecond at a subconscious level. Accepting this to be fact opens up a world that very few have explored.
My training is now geared to my fluid situational response. The response is dictated by time, distance, and where you find yourself in the reactionary curve. The position on the reactionary curve is the most important factor to your response. This is where natural human response of "fight or flight" takes over. IMHO you should embrace the "fight or flight" response and train within that response. One thing to keep in mind, when it comes to firearms "fight or flight" is also "fight and flight." The direction you move, the speed of your movement, the necessary visual input to maneuver and to comprehend the problem, the necessary visual input needed to make the hits, and the necessary visual input to recognize the situational changes in your position in the OODA loop, are all dependent on your position in the reactionary curve.
There is no doubt that at certain distances, going hands on before you access your handgun is the very best response. But for now, let's take a look at responses that are outside of hand to hand ranges.
If you have succeeded in being ahead in the reactionary curve due to awareness, deception, distraction, or metsubushi (throw something in the face of your adversary) you are in a dominant position. Conditioned responses are excellent for this situation. Stand and deliver, sighted fire, aggressively advancing to your 12:00 are all appropriate responses.
If you find yourself even in the reactionary curve, your response will have to be different. Conditioned responses may not get the job done as well as natural human response. The fight and flight response will kick in and you will want to get out of the kill zone. Move as you draw, put hits on the adversary as soon as you can using target focused skills, work towards getting inside of the adversaries OODA loop by your movement, ballistic effect, and acquiring his flank. Once you have turned the OODA loop in your favor, embrace your fluid situational response and shift from a reactionary position to the dominant position and eliminate the threat.
If you find yourself well behind the reactionary curve, your response will have to change even more. A conditioned response could be suicide, your best hope is a natural human response. A surprised response can be use to your advantage and you must train to be comfortable within your surprised response. Flight may override fight, because you must survive the initial contact so that you can get into the fight. Explode out of the kill zone while drawing your weapon, move to cover if near, put hits on the adversary using target focus skills, look to turn the tide, if the situation changes, flow into the next appropriate response.
Once you embrace your fluid situational response you will go places that you never thought were possible, where your mind is the weapon and the gun is just an extension of your mind, and everything flows with no conscious thought.
The inevitable question arises, "what is more important, to get the hits or to not get hit?" The fluid situational response helps answer that question. When you are ahead of the reactionary curve, it is more important to get the hits. You are in the dominate position....ELIMINATE THE THREAT! If you are even on the reactionary curve the importance are equal. Use a balance of speed (of movement) and accuracy to solve the problem. If you are behind in the reactionary curve it is more important to not get hit. Get out of the kill zone by "thinking move first." Sprint to cover if it is near or access your handgun on the sprint and put hits on your adversary. Always look to get inside of the adversaries OODA loop and progress through your fluid situational response until you are either dominating the confrontation or have put yourself in the position to terminate the confrontation.
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