Response to confrontation

This is a discussion on Response to confrontation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; get a scoped long rifle for the house, make sure someone inside can use it. Wouldnt hurt to have a little back up from the ...

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Thread: Response to confrontation

  1. #16
    Member Array hrtbrk07's Avatar
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    get a scoped long rifle for the house, make sure someone inside can use it. Wouldnt hurt to have a little back up from the house, especially if that gate is locked next time. Otherwise, good job. I would have went home too. They may know where I live, but if they choose to follow they are gonna know that when it rains it pours. Not water, lead.
    "Wear a gun to someone else's house, you're saying, 'I'll defend this home as if it were my own.' When your guests see you carry a weapon, you're telling them, 'I'll defend you as if you were my own family"

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Sorry...

    Quote Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar View Post
    I ride a scooter too and if I had to guess, I'd say it was probably just a bunch of young punks messing around with a guy on a scooter. While I've never been followed while riding mine I have people shouting things at me and peeling out behind me all the time.
    Respectfully, I have to disagree. This went from harrassment to threat behavior the moment the headlights went off on a dark country road. I don't know what the road conditions were, but s'pose he'd had a tumble right in front of them? With headlights OFF the risk of running him over skyrocketed. That's culpable negligence at least. It lends weight to the spin-up of a deliberate attack. If you can see such coming then you should act in such a way as to minimize their odds of success as well as make clear YOU shouldn't be regarded as "prey" under any circumstance and especially for your mode of transportation!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array ElMonoDelMar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Respectfully, I have to disagree. This went from harrassment to threat behavior the moment the headlights went off on a dark country road. I don't know what the road conditions were, but s'pose he'd had a tumble right in front of them? With headlights OFF the risk of running him over skyrocketed. That's culpable negligence at least. It lends weight to the spin-up of a deliberate attack. If you can see such coming then you should act in such a way as to minimize their odds of success as well as make clear YOU shouldn't be regarded as "prey" under any circumstance and especially for your mode of transportation!
    Oh I'm not saying it wasn't a dangerous situation or that he shouldn't treat it as such. I'm just saying that it was PROBABLY just a group of kids messing around. He should still be prepared in case it wasn't, but it's not really anything to get overly worked up about.

    Maybe consider a bigger carry gun when riding the scooter or just ride the bigger bike around for a while.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink I have a lot of experience with "punk kids"

    Quote Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar View Post
    I'm just saying that it was PROBABLY just a group of kids messing around......but it's not really anything to get overly worked up about.

    Maybe consider a bigger carry gun when riding the scooter or just ride the bigger bike around for a while.
    If it's probably just kids, why bother with a bigger gun? Speaking as a former Probation and Parole Officer and heck as a current high school teacher in the inner city, I have a lot of experience with both "punk kids" and hardened criminals.

    Most hardened criminals were probably once just punk kids. Then they did something...and got away with it. Then they did something worse and maye...got away with it. At some point, they stop "getting away with it" and start getting charged.

    Then it's pretty much too late 'cause they're charged as adults. So the behavior continues because they don't see any other way and they're too lazy to get the education they need to move up. Until they try something with a "sheepdog" who knows how to react and then....it's REALLY too late. Too bad.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array ElMonoDelMar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    If it's probably just kids, why bother with a bigger gun? Speaking as a former Probation and Parole Officer and heck as a current high school teacher in the inner city, I have a lot of experience with both "punk kids" and hardened criminals.

    Most hardened criminals were probably once just punk kids. Then they did something...and got away with it. Then they did something worse and maye...got away with it. At some point, they stop "getting away with it" and start getting charged.

    Then it's pretty much too late 'cause they're charged as adults. So the behavior continues because they don't see any other way and they're too lazy to get the education they need to move up. Until they try something with a "sheepdog" who knows how to react and then....it's REALLY too late. Too bad.
    I think your misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't take preventative measures, I'm just saying he shouldn't lose sleep over it. He should treat it as serious and take steps to prevent it from happening again.

    I was simply offering up that in my experience people like to harass those of us who drive scooters.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Cool ~sigh~

    Quote Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar View Post
    I think your misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't take preventative measures, I'm just saying he shouldn't lose sleep over it. He should treat it as serious and take steps to prevent it from happening again.

    I was simply offering up that in my experience people like to harass those of us who drive scooters.
    When you say They're probably just punk kids....don't lose sleep it seems to me you're minimizing the incident to the point of total dismissal.

    Me? I durn sure would lose a little bit of sleep until I'd wrestled the incident fully and done a self check on what I should have done (forum feedback here is critical) and how I can keep it from escalating should there be another event. I have personally seen too many instances when this sort of thing is simply shrugged off and forgotten or dismissed as just punks and it comes back to make a severe bite in the butt. I've seen it happen to teachers who get threatened in class and shrug it off only to get jumped after school. MY students know I'm a sheepdog. They know what that means and they know how I will react to threat behavior. In fact, I guess I should be getting my mind back in THAT game since I go back to work a week from this Thursday. Summer's almost over.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array ElMonoDelMar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    When you say They're probably just punk kids....don't lose sleep it seems to me you're minimizing the incident to the point of total dismissal.

    Me? I durn sure would lose a little bit of sleep until I'd wrestled the incident fully and done a self check on what I should have done (forum feedback here is critical) and how I can keep it from escalating should there be another event. I have personally seen too many instances when this sort of thing is simply shrugged off and forgotten or dismissed as just punks and it comes back to make a severe bite in the butt. I've seen it happen to teachers who get threatened in class and shrug it off only to get jumped after school. MY students know I'm a sheepdog. They know what that means and they know how I will react to threat behavior. In fact, I guess I should be getting my mind back in THAT game since I go back to work a week from this Thursday. Summer's almost over.
    There's a big difference between staying up all night in your hardened bunker and carrying a bigger gun or driving a faster vehicle. I'm simply suggesting he not to the first.

    I'm not really sure why you're trying to call me out on this. I agree there could be trouble here. I really only posted in the first place to let the OP know that I share his pain.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up No call out intended!

    Quote Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar View Post
    There's a big difference between staying up all night in your hardened bunker and carrying a bigger gun or driving a faster vehicle. I'm simply suggesting he not to the first.

    I'm not really sure why you're trying to call me out on this. I agree there could be trouble here. I really only posted in the first place to let the OP know that I share his pain.
    Whups, SORRY. I certainly didn't intend my posts to suggest that I was "calling you out." I'm probably guilty of some projection because I do have to go back to work soon with those very same punks and criminals. I teach psychology, too. So I do apologize if I was getting confrontational. I do concede that this need not result in a bunker mentality...just some normal precautions. Okay?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array ElMonoDelMar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Whups, SORRY. I certainly didn't intend my posts to suggest that I was "calling you out." I'm probably guilty of some projection because I do have to go back to work soon with those very same punks and criminals. I teach psychology, too. So I do apologize if I was getting confrontational. I do concede that this need not result in a bunker mentality...just some normal precautions. Okay?
    Agreed. Good luck back at school.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    It seems to me that a scooter might be able to go places a car can't, thus opening up some additional escape opportunities....

  12. #26
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    Question Definitions of a "scooter."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    It seems to me that a scooter might be able to go places a car can't, thus opening up some additional escape opportunities....
    If we were talking about a dirt bike in the 250-350cc range I'd agree also dependent on rider skill. I don't ride dirtbikes for a reason. It is one fast way to bust your A$$.

    I like BIG cruisers. They have drawbacks, too. But very few conventional cars can keep up with a skillful rider in traffic who is riding say a Harley Low Rider or a Honda Goldwing. A 'Wing is faster off the line and in the quarter mile than a Lamoborghini Countach. So in the city a big cruiser has all the edge. IF a rider has the skill.

    In the boonies, a good dirtbike could just dart off road and go straight up a hillside (not too steep but steeper than a car could handle) or across a stream or you name it. Again depending on the skill and courage of the rider.

    But we're talking about a scooter here. A scooter is designed for just two things: gas mileage and easy rideability. It doesn't have the ooomph or ground clearance to go off road and neither will it be able to stay fluid and loose in moving traffic. The best E & E (escape & evade) potential it MIGHT have is in bumper to bumper traffic where it would have the smallness factor to slide between cars and inch over curbs to get away. In a rural setting that single advantage goes away.
    Last edited by ExSoldier; August 1st, 2007 at 02:15 AM.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #27
    Member Array dahenrymd's Avatar
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    I put a gate on my quarter-mile long driveway so as not to find my way blocked by some thug when going in on call in the middle of the night, and I never expected that it might be an impediment to getting out of a situation like this. My street is a dead end, so once I had turned down it, the possibility of evading a following vehicle by going to the well-lit kroger parking lot 2.5 mi away was lost.

    As I was riding down my rural lane, I remembered my nurse's 18 yr-old nephew who was car jacked at gunpoint just 3 days earlier and released after thug #1 had riden in the back seat with him, sticking a pistol on his neck for 10 minutes as thug #2 drove around town in his new car. I wasted time thinking about this instead of what I should do to evade a threat.

    My neighbor's driveway enters his property though a well-cut field that I could have ridden off-road on the Burgman 400 until I reached a tree to take cover behind. It is very unlikely that anyone would have followed off road. Why didn't I think of that at the time?

    I practice shooting my Kel-Tec 380 and Kahr PM9, but I had not mentally rehearsed such an encounter. This underscores the importance of considering where one might likely encounter a dangerous situation and how to deal with it should one materialize.

    I appreciate all the input from forum members.

  14. #28
    Member Array Angel in San Antonio's Avatar
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    LOLOL on the smoke screen and oil slick business.... c'mon 007

  15. #29
    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    dahenrymd, not a criticism but some advice if this type of situation comes up again. This goes for anyone who feels their "spidey sense" tingling as well. Four things that are easy to do to find out if someone is following you.

    1) Slow down and take quick turns without signaling. This will make it so that the person behind you will have to quickly change course and will make it blatantly obvious they're doing so.

    2) Make turns in a zig-zag pattern (again, without signals). This would be such as making a right, then a left, then a right, and another left (and so on). Most people will assume that at some point you will go straight and will continue on thinking you've turned off your lights or arrived home.

    3) Perform a set of turns in a circle. If someone has an intended destination, they are very unlikely to make 3 right or left turns in a row. If a person follows you on each and every turn, they are following you.

    4) Stop. That simple. This will force the person that is possibly following you to either continue on or confront you. While this is the most dangerous option, it is also the most fool-proof.

    * Disclaimer: There are sometimes permissible reasons for someone to follow you. You could have a legitimate follower that is a police officer currently investigating a suspected or recent crime, or is about to perform a traffic stop due to an equipment violation (or for not using your turn signals earlier lol). It could also be someone attempting to inform you that you left your wallet, etc. somewhere, that you left something on your roof or trunk lid, a friend or neighbor trying to inform you of an important message (e.g. death in the family and your phone's not working), or others.

    Cheers.
    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall." Adolf Hitler

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink One more qualifier...

    Quote Originally Posted by soundwave View Post
    dahenrymd, not a criticism but some advice if this type of situation comes up again. This goes for anyone who feels their "spidey sense" tingling as well. Four things that are easy to do to find out if someone is following you.

    1) Slow down and take quick turns without signaling.
    2) Make turns in a zig-zag pattern (again, without signals).
    3) Perform a set of turns in a circle.
    4) Stop. That simple. This will force the person that is possibly following you to either continue on or confront you. While this is the most dangerous option, it is also the most fool-proof.

    * Disclaimer: There are sometimes permissible reasons for someone to follow you. You could have a legitimate follower that is a police officer currently investigating a suspected or recent crime, or is about to perform a traffic stop due to an equipment violation (or for not using your turn signals earlier lol). It could also be someone attempting to inform you that you left your wallet, etc. somewhere, that you left something on your roof or trunk lid, a friend or neighbor trying to inform you of an important message (e.g. death in the family and your phone's not working), or others.

    Cheers.
    GOOD LIST but there is one more caveat. You likely will not spot an experienced TEAM that's got radio contact with each other and are running the box or parallel formations, a different car rotating into the position behind you at certain intervals. Those can be spotted, but it takes someone of equal proficiency. The topper is a chopper overhead.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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