? giving up your gun in an armed robbery.

? giving up your gun in an armed robbery.

This is a discussion on ? giving up your gun in an armed robbery. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; For some robberies you may have an easy and good way to draw and confront the bad guy, and for some, where you are ambushed ...

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Thread: ? giving up your gun in an armed robbery.

  1. #1
    Member Array erichard's Avatar
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    ? giving up your gun in an armed robbery.

    For some robberies you may have an easy and good way to draw and confront the bad guy, and for some, where you are ambushed and caught flat footed, you may be forced to comply. This can happen with multiple attackers or where they are armed with AR/AK's or where there are many innocent people that could be caught in the crossfire, etc., to make it more extreme. Everyone most likely has a limit where they will turn to compliance over combat. That's the assumption that I think is true for even the most aggressive amongst us.

    Whatever that limit is for you, let's say it is unfolding before your eyes. Now let's add one new variable: you can see that rather than asking for wallets and phones and purses, they are patting everyone down and going through all pockets to check for cash. Your very real fear is that if they pat you down, they will more than likely find your gun and take it. That's what's going through your mind at the moment you see how it's going down (let's say at least one armed gunman and one accomplice gathering the booty, which seems pretty typical).

    Are you more likely to draw at some point and fight given that you see the extensive pat down happening? Would it be highly likely you'd draw to avoid giving up your gun? Or, is your limit for when to resist the same, regardless of whether they are likely to find your gun? In that case, you just feel the danger is high enough for you, your family, and other innocents that the gun is not so significant an issue to change your typical strategy when caught flat footed and the robber in charge.

    Does the increased chance of giving up your gun alter the strategy?

    Since everybody here carries presumably, it might be something to consider ahead of time.

  2. #2
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Well, first here is thank God you are concealed and have the decision to make.

    The rest depends on opportunity and situation, a totality of the circumstances.
    Your primary weapon is your mind, and the objective is to survive.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight"
    -Jeff Cooper

  3. #3
    Member Array erichard's Avatar
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    All true. Sounds like you'd maintain a similar strategy given that opportunity and totality of circumstances are assumed to be equal between one scenario where they ask for wallets/purses/phones and the other where they physically go through your pockets, etc. and remove it themselves. You'd certainly meet the objective to survive about as easily if not more easily by complying, all else equal. You'd just have one less gun.

  4. #4
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    What Glockman10mm said!

    Additionally, First possible opportunity the head robber is going down then hopefully the two other muppets will just pass out.........one way or another.

    You're getting better at this scenario stuff. I like it.

    Merry Christmas!
    oneshot likes this.
    "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." John Wayne
    NRA member 18 yrs.

  5. #5
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    As with all things, it depends. Is the guy doing the frisking the one holding the gun, or the one who is going to become my cover?
    "To reject the notion of expertise, and to replace it with a sanctimonious insistence that every person has a right to his or her own opinion, is silly."

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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
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    It is all about what your up


    Frankly BG with long guns unless say a long rang shooter dont effect me ..Just a person same as any other just remember better and more cover ..It is the people in Body armor that worry me more

    That said go with what you feel is right
    “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” H.L. Mencken
    "Vous ne les laisserez pas passer, mes camarades"
    "We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them."Chesty Puller

  7. #7
    Member Array erichard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    As with all things, it depends. Is the guy doing the frisking the one holding the gun, or the one who is going to become my cover?
    It's a scenario where initially you think, boy, I better comply because I just did not see this coming, and they now have the drop on me. You expect them to ask for wallets, etc, but you are surprised to see them going through the pockets of each person in your party of let's say 4-8 people. Now you are wondering if your first strategy was correct, because initially, you thought you'd just keep your gun holstered and get through the ordeal with no one the wiser about your gun. You can no longer assume that, and question is, do you push the envelope more than you would otherwise.

    You might get away with a draw, but had they not been patting you down, you normally would simply give up and comply given the poor odds.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array sammeow's Avatar
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    What if.....
    What if....
    What if....
    To paraphrase those smarter than me, " No plan survives contact with the enemy."
    You will act and/or react.
    There's only one way to get to heaven. John 14:6

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array QMASTERARMS's Avatar
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    HOKA HEY!!!!

    Great OP!

    Based on the hostage scenario you posed, without hesitation I would immediately attack with extreme ferocity and violence and in so doing cause such a truly horrific charlie foxtrot for the hostage takers that my family and many others would escape. The hostage takers would rue the day they encountered me. It would make no difference if I were CC a firearm or not. A firearm is irrelevant to my decision in this hostage scenario. I was trained in and to this day practice every day USMC L.I.N.E., which is a form of CQB that if executed properly is extremely effective, as the F.A.S.T. Company Marine who taught me practiced it in Somalia during the battle of Mogadishu where he killed 10 militiamen who came one after another into the second story of the building he was situated, when he ran out of ammo as a scout sniper. I have discussed this exact hostage scenario with my wife and she has pledged to me that her only focus is to escape with our children while I focus on ripping the throats out of the hostage takers up to and beyond my last breath. As the Hagakure the book of the samurai states: "Even if a samurai has his head cut off, he should still be able to do one last thing with certainty". In my view there is no better way to die than while protecting my family.

    BadgerJ, rcsoftexas and Phaedrus like this.

  10. #10
    Member Array Toolmanbutch's Avatar
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    Not all of us are able to do what you say you can do. I hope that someone is near me like you when and if this ever happens. Otherwise I will try to protect what I can to the best that the situation will allow. I will help anyone if I can.
    Quote Originally Posted by QMASTERARMS View Post
    HOKA HEY!!!!

    Great OP!

    Based on the hostage scenario you posed, without hesitation I would immediately attack with extreme ferocity and violence and in so doing cause such a truly horrific charlie foxtrot for the hostage takers that my family and many others would escape. The hostage takers would rue the day they encountered me. It would make no difference if I were CC a firearm or not. A firearm is irrelevant to my decision in this hostage scenario. I was trained in and to this day practice every day USMC L.I.N.E., which is a form of CQB that if executed properly is extremely effective, as the F.A.S.T. Company Marine who taught me practiced it in Somalia during the battle of Mogadishu where he killed 10 militiamen who came one after another into the second story of the building he was situated, when he ran out of ammo as a scout sniper. I have discussed this exact hostage scenario with my wife and she has pledged to me that her only focus is to escape with our children while I focus on ripping the throats out of the hostage takers up to and beyond my last breath. As the Hagakure the book of the samurai states: "Even if a samurai has his head cut off, he should still be able to do one last thing with certainty". In my view there is no better way to die than while protecting my family.

    rcsoftexas likes this.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array patkelly4370's Avatar
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    Both wife and I carry and practice together with our 4 kids (15-26 years old).
    Maybe we have the surprise in our favor

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    As a former Marine FAST member, I think some people are filled with delusions of grandeur....
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight"
    -Jeff Cooper

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Texas Red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QMASTERARMS View Post
    HOKA HEY!!!!

    Great OP!

    Based on the hostage scenario you posed, without hesitation I would immediately attack with extreme ferocity and violence and in so doing cause such a truly horrific charlie foxtrot for the hostage takers that my family and many others would escape. The hostage takers would rue the day they encountered me. It would make no difference if I were CC a firearm or not. A firearm is irrelevant to my decision in this hostage scenario. I was trained in and to this day practice every day USMC L.I.N.E., which is a form of CQB that if executed properly is extremely effective, as the F.A.S.T. Company Marine who taught me practiced it in Somalia during the battle of Mogadishu where he killed 10 militiamen who came one after another into the second story of the building he was situated, when he ran out of ammo as a scout sniper. I have discussed this exact hostage scenario with my wife and she has pledged to me that her only focus is to escape with our children while I focus on ripping the throats out of the hostage takers up to and beyond my last breath. As the Hagakure the book of the samurai states: "Even if a samurai has his head cut off, he should still be able to do one last thing with certainty". In my view there is no better way to die than while protecting my family.
    FAST team? No such thing in the Old Corps.

    I was just a plain old jarhead in my USMC days more than 40 years ago.

    That said, I admire your semper fi, do or die attitude. I'd sure like to have one of you guys creating an extreme disturbance if I was ever caught up in a scenario like the OP presented. It'd give me time to take better aim on the perps. Us senior citizens need every edge we can get.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

    Agent K

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Well, first here is thank God you are concealed and have the decision to make.

    The rest depends on opportunity and situation, a totality of the circumstances.
    Your primary weapon is your mind, and the objective is to survive.
    [assumption here is in a public place such as a store or restaurant]

    IF you have an avenue of escape, that is your first move to take. IF you have family with you, you must also consider their safety in your move. IF you are alone, you are free to take whatever decisions that will enable you to survive the situation.

    As for getting your sidearm into play, if you see it coming to this look for any opportunities to get that gun out and use it. An armed assailant (assumption is robbery) has already announced his intent and as such is open game for your deadly response so get to your sidearm if you can and stop the threat.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array QMASTERARMS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    As a former Marine FAST member, I think some people are filled with delusions of grandeur....
    General Chuck Krulak and the F.A.S.T. Marines that worked for and still know me might disagree. Further you are unique in my experience, since no USMC F.A.S.T. Company operator that I have worked with or met would announce their affiliation with F.A.S.T. Company openly on a public forum. Yet times have changed and who can say.
    Last edited by QMASTERARMS; December 23rd, 2016 at 01:02 PM.

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