Is this a right thing to do?

This is a discussion on Is this a right thing to do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In some states, like Virginia, you COULD be charged with "Brandishing a Firearm" however if the pistol is kept in the holster it probably would ...

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Thread: Is this a right thing to do?

  1. #31
    New Member Array swabjocky's Avatar
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    In some states, like Virginia, you COULD be charged with "Brandishing a Firearm" however if the pistol is kept in the holster it probably would not fly.

    Your best be is just to turn around and leave.

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  3. #32
    Member Array Serenity's Avatar
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    The gun stays hidden and holstered until you are willing to use it. That doesn't mean that you have to shoot when you pull it but it does mean that you must believe that using deadly force is justifiable at that moment.

    Pulling the gun earlier could set you up as the agressor because after all you were the one who threatened somebody with a deadly weapon. Sure it might scare them off or it might cause them to bring out their own weapons. They might also back down and then be able to call the cops and say quite truthfully that you threatened or pulled a gun on them. It's your word against theirs and depending on the story they tell you could find yourself in a lot of trouble.
    "Friend, I would not harm thee for all the world, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot."--Unknown Quaker

  4. #33
    Member Array target1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skvinson View Post

    Which BTW, brings up another issue. Someone mentioned being willing to take some blows if it came to a fight (without weapons). Who's to say if a person lands a good blow and gains the advantage that he will be content with just inflicting a minor injury. Not every fist fight ends with just cuts and bruises. Serious injury is not out of the question. I'm not saying this justifies shooting anyone who cocks his fist, I'm just saying there is more to consider...
    I have a friend whos first husband was killed with 1 punch.

    A group of guys were being rude to the girls in my friends group (3-4 girls and 3-4 guys). My group did everything they could to just ignore them. For reasons I cant remember it got more physical. My friends husband was blind sided. He was punched, with a bare fist, in the temple area and fell dead right then. So YES 1 punch can KILL you. Would I draw just cuz some idiot wanted to kick my donkey? probably not. But I would be ready to if I could not avoid the situation.
    One thing that does worry me is....what if I end up in a fist fight, even though I tried to avoid it, and my gun falls to the ground or he has found it during the scuffle? Now HE has a gun and I dont. That one Darn good reason to do everything you can to avoid a fight or to defuse the situation.
    David

    Ride hard and Shoot safe

    The first rule of gunfighting should be to know when the gunfight starts - being the last one to get the news certainly won't put the odds in your favor.

  5. #34
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Reading through some of these post, and the original post brought to memory [U]"In The Gravest Extreme"[/U] by Massad Ayoob. It's a great book for all to read.

    Biker

  6. #35
    Member Array Slash Dragoon's Avatar
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    I have an update on this scenario.

    The reason I asked my second question was because I was going to leave my pistol locked in a safe at my brothers house while I was at college, because I cant carry on campus.

    He lives right off campus so I figured I would go there to get my gun when I needed to go into town. It turns out that one of the people he is living with (Who is on the lease) is a felon. (Took a relatives car when they said "No" and they reported it stolen and pressed charges)

    So, is it alright to have it locked in a safe, bolted to the floor, with no one in the house knowing the passcode or that it is even there (Except my brother) while there is a felon in the house?

  7. #36
    Member Array Mad_Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    Escalate, shmescalate. If the other guy wants a fight there will be a fight. So the OP doesn't show his gun and gets in a fist fight instead, and while rolling around on the ground his opponent finds the gun, takes it and kills him.

    I used to believe there were only two options: Gun in holster or gun shooing badguy. Clearly this is not the case. A physical confrontation when you are carrying a gun is AUTOMATICALLY a deadly situation. You are fighting to retain control of the weapon, even if your enemy doesn't know you have one yet. If you lose, you lose control of the weapon and possibly your life.
    Thanks for bringing this up....

    I have thought about this a lot and I have to agree. Fist fighting and rolling around on the ground with a firearm present is automatically a potentially lethal situation.

    I think the best remedy is to carry mace and disappear into a cloud of it. I intend to get some and always carry it when carrying my weapon....

    Barring this, I am personally in favor of showing the holstered weapon while leaving and dialing 911 to report. Now if you are attacked by more than one person then disparity of force show be a good defense to brandishing. BUT state law could disagree.....

    Finally if you have done anything to instigate this mess that will certainly be an aggravating factor.

    Just my opinion NOT based on legal knowledge or advice so take it at that. Like a previous poster said "you can have your pride or carry your gun - but not both" That said, I think rolling on the ground with an attacker while armed should be avoided at all cost.....
    Last edited by Mad_Max; August 17th, 2007 at 12:35 PM.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveHK View Post
    If the person has no way of grievously harming you (I donít consider a fight grievously harming you, painful, yes, but youíll live), then I say your gun has no business being displayed or used. When you carry you really have to take the high road and walk away. There are far too many scenarios that will end in you losing and being used on you or using your gun when it's not needed.
    Sound advice.

    But I do have a pressing question for you. Is that signature picture of yours a rabbit with pancakes on it's head??? Really. I keep looking and even put on my glasses. Looks like a pancaked bunny to me. Inquiring minds want to know....at least mine.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array BigEFan's Avatar
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    In response to the situation you have presented, I thought I would share 2 situations that my mother, who for many years was a CCW Permit Holder, ran into.

    My mother worked for a food distributor and on a daily basis called on stores that were her clients. As most of you can imagine, not all gorcery stores are in the best of neighborhoods and as luck would have it, a couple of her clients were in pretty bad neighborhoods.

    Situation 1
    After completing an order in a grocery store my mom was in the process of leaving when a customer at the store started asking her for a date and the so on. After politely refusing the guy, my mom walked out of the store. The guy began following her and started getting more demanding in his comments. My mother, having worked in a LAw Enf agency in the past knew better than to try and get in her car with this guy so close behind. My mother reached into her briefcase and pulled out her S&W snubby, while at the same time turning around to face the guy. The gentleman stopped dead in his tracks and went back in the store. My mother got in her car and left quickly.

    In this situation, I think my mother handled the situation completely appropriately. She was ready to use the gun but gave the BG every opportunity to avoid being shot and lucky for him, he did so.

    Situation 2
    Mom again at a clients store in one of the less desireable parts of town. As she is leaving the store she passes through the first set of doors that goes to a "lobby type area, and proceeds to go out a second set of doors that go outside. As she steps out the second set of doors she is immediately surrounded by several men who are blocking her path. My mom, again draws her weapon, this time taking a serious defensive posture. Like the red sea, the men part and she slowly and carefully makes her way to her car and they chose not to follow.

    In this particular case I don't know if I like the way my mother handled the situation. As she told the story the number of men were between 6 and 8. Her 38 only had 5 shots. Big problemo if they don't back off. I guess all of them wouldn't have stuck around if she started firing, but if they were stupid enough to engage after she had drawn her weapon, you just never know. I think I would have preferred her retreat back into the store at this point and put some distance between her and the BG's. BTW both of these took place prior to the day of the cell phone.
    Lex et Libertas ó Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!

    "Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell

  10. #39
    New Member Array drjay's Avatar
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    New guy here, just finished reading the first 25 pages of this forum...no kidding. I was going to start a thread with basically the same question as this one. Maybe I'm missing the point but I'm more curious about the *LEGAL* ramifications of displaying your firearm, not necessarily if it's a 'good idea' or not. I think every situation requires it's own evaluation and some may turn out worse just by showing a weapon.

    For example, say you're pumping gas and some idiot at the gas station for whatever reason wants to fight you. He's screaming and yelling, maybe not directly saying "I'm gonna kick your arse" but is clearly irate and heading towards you. For me it would be just as tempting to leave as it would be to stick next to my car. I wouldn't mind backing off in, say, a 20ft circle around my car but I can't imagine hi-tailing it down the street a few blocks and leaving my car to be keyed or whatever. After trying as hard as I can to diffuse the situation (you're right, I'm a jerk, very sorry, don't want trouble)

    ****Would I be justified in going from CC to OC? If he continues towards me, could I draw?

    Let me also say that I'm a firm believer that EVERY fight while carrying a weapon is a potentially lethal situation. I could imagine if I was mad enough at someone to up and punch them, if they fell down and I saw they had a weapon. Holy crap I just punched a guy with a weapon, I have no idea how he'll react, I BETTER GET THAT GUN! Then what? Adrenaline running, the guy is already mad enough to have hit you, and now he's holding your gun. This becomes especially true because I'm not a fighter and will certainly let him make the first move. I'm not a small guy, but you can't build muscle around your brain so I'm not too big to admit one hit from even a small guy can easily knock me down and present a deadly situation.

    Please, for the sake of argument for whatever reason you're not able to fully leave the situation. He's blocking your car, you still have to go in and pay, your wife is in the car, whatever.

  11. #40
    Member Array FknRa's Avatar
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    WELCOME DrJay!!!


    a car beig keyed is not worth the jail time thats what cops and insurance are for.

    Nothing I own is worth a lethal confrontation. My life however is differant. While in some states you don't have a legal requirement to retreat, If it is an option I will do so.

    The response that i would give I guess is, "I'm sorry to have offended you sir, I appologise and don't want a fight," while backing away and asking someone to call 911. If the threats continue; "Please sir, I don't want to have to defend myself but I will if I have to, you are scaring me". While still trying to back away increasing distance. At this time if it still continues I would consider presenting the weapon at low ready.

    You now have attempted to diffuse the situation, You have expressed your fear/concern for your safety, and you have requested law enforcement. In a public situation these steps will likely help you alot in the legal situation that follows.

    As with every "Scenario" that we post here, there are always differant variables. Who you are with, The aggressiveness of the "BG", the surroundings and the ability to back away. And while these are great excercises to help refine our responses to differant situations, it is very difficult to give a black and white response to any of them without actually being there.

    It comes down to knowing the laws surrounding your situation when you are there, and trying to make the right decision about when to take someones life or not.

    If he is blocking your car I would be on the phone to 911 Very quickly. I would not get out even if having to pay. That can get resolved at a later point in time after the threat situation has been removed. If he is breaking windows in the car, something is going to get rammed. Him, or the vehicle blocking me in.

    All this said, I will defend my spouse MUCH more aggresively, than I would myself. It's just the way I am.
    To those that paid for my freedom,
    I WILL NEVER FORGET.

    As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.

  12. #41
    JD
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    For fight over BS, you need to be like BRUCE LEE.

    De-escalation is the key

  13. #42
    New Member Array drjay's Avatar
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    Thanks fknra!

    Very true, trying to avoid confrontation is always key. In Georgia we adopted the 'stand your ground' law but I'm not sure that applies to a fight. I'm just curious if the law does protect you if you go OC or draw over someone picking a fight. Obviously it would depend on a few things, but if you could somehow be certain you were about to get punched, would the LAW allow you leeway?

    I'm referring to the last 10 seconds before you're certain to be punched, not at the first sign of a confrontation. I'm not looking to be trigger happy and frankly would be rather embarrassed about the whole situation. Frankly I'm probably going to do it anyway because as I mentioned letting an angry guy get my gun is the last thing that's happening. What's that quote, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" Cliche, but true.

  14. #43
    Member Array opr1945's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Slash Dragoon;456915]

    The reason I asked my second question was because I was going to leave my pistol locked in a safe at my brothers house while I was at college, because I cant carry on campus.



    One of my children living at home was put on probation. The parol officer said the child could not live where there was a gun or serious weapon. I was concerened since I had several firearms/weapons. The P.O. told my child that if there was an inspection my child would be inviolation of his parol. I would not be in any trouble. So to allow my child to continue to live at home I packed up all my guns/weapons, put them in a locked box, and stored them elsewhere. Which, BTW, could have created another problem for the owner of the premises where they were stored.

    .......for whatever it is worth.

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