How close can suspicious guy(s) get to you at night before drawing your gun? - Page 7

How close can suspicious guy(s) get to you at night before drawing your gun?

This is a discussion on How close can suspicious guy(s) get to you at night before drawing your gun? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; well I am a 57 year old, over weight, bad body guy. i try to keep aware of what is around me. people laugh cause ...

View Poll Results: How close can suspicious guy get to you at night before you eventually escalate force

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  • At 10ft I'd be warning, absent compliance, draw weapon

    40 58.82%
  • At 6ft I'd warn, and transition to brandishing at 4 ft.

    6 8.82%
  • I would not warn, but brandish at 4ft, shoot at 2ft

    1 1.47%
  • No warning, but quickly draw at 2ft, shoot on contact

    1 1.47%
  • Warn at 4ft, draw as he about touched me.

    3 4.41%
  • no warning, no draw until he touched me in threatening way or worse.

    17 25.00%
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Thread: How close can suspicious guy(s) get to you at night before drawing your gun?

  1. #91
    Member Array packnrat's Avatar
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    well I am a 57 year old, over weight, bad body guy.
    i try to keep aware of what is around me. people laugh cause i have many tin hats.

    if a unknown is bee-lining fast to me before it gets 40 feet (40 feet can be covered in a couple seconds) away i am alerting. first sign or words showing a threat. gun is out.

    a bg hopped up on who knows what. as just myself i am out matched big time. heck even just a sour bum with something in there hands, has the possibility of maiming or killing me.
    I have a lot to lose.. they have noting to lose.

    if i can put something between us so much the better.
    i should not have to give ground. but it does look better in court if i tried to avoid a problem. but if bg is bound to harm me, bg has limited the choices or options open to me.
    if family is with me. so much more i have to protect from harm. less options there. (my mom is disabled and in her late 70's).

    .

    .

  2. #92
    Senior Member Array patkelly4370's Avatar
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    You draw on violent people, not suspicious people.
    Someone may seem suspicious to me but not to you.
    When they become violent, that is a little more obvious.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by packnrat View Post
    well I am a 57 year old, over weight, bad body guy.
    i try to keep aware of what is around me. people laugh cause i have many tin hats.

    if a unknown is bee-lining fast to me before it gets 40 feet (40 feet can be covered in a couple seconds) away i am alerting. first sign or words showing a threat. gun is out.

    a bg hopped up on who knows what. as just myself i am out matched big time. heck even just a sour bum with something in there hands, has the possibility of maiming or killing me.
    I have a lot to lose.. they have noting to lose.

    if i can put something between us so much the better.
    i should not have to give ground. but it does look better in court if i tried to avoid a problem. but if bg is bound to harm me, bg has limited the choices or options open to me.
    if family is with me. so much more i have to protect from harm. less options there. (my mom is disabled and in her late 70's).

    .

    .
    I'd be more concerned with your first sentence and any problems being recognized cqb range before you know about it. Then whats your plan>? -----
    Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
    Bad Bob likes this.
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  5. #94
    Member Array Renaldow's Avatar
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    So, what is suspicious? You're talking about fear of strangers here, really. I didn't answer the poll because to me, distance isn't a reasonable part of the equation. I would likely give myself the thumbs down as my own juror if my defense in a shooting was that someone whom I thought might be scary got too close to me, which is exactly what a shooting based on suspicion is. You shoot to stop someone from causing you, or another person, harm. It can be at 2 feet, or 10. Maybe even 20. Who knows?

    I'm not a martial arts expert. I'm on the wrong side of 45. These things really don't matter. A firearm (or any weapon of choice) is maybe 10% of an overall self defense plan, and it's the last step. It's the nuclear option. Before that, as has been mentioned quite a bit by others, are a lot of other options. De-escalation, situational awareness, removing yourself, etc. are what give you a plethora of options when it comes to any situation. Yep, there are times when a bg could catch you unawares and you're SOL. It happens. Some day the bear eats you, sometimes you eat the bear. Nothing you can do but hopefully stay alive and learn the hard lesson in those cases. But most of the time, situational awareness will allow you to get out of a situation, or at least gain the upper hand.

    This is what I'd do in your scenario: Some guy is walking towards me on the sidewalk, I get that skitchy feeling, I stop. I don't help him out by walking towards him and closing the distance quicker. I stop, put my back up against the building, fence, whatever's next to that sidewalk, and watch the suspicious character as he walks towards me and I watch him until he's off the same block. When I do this, I pretend like I've stopped to dig for something in my pocket, and am really putting my hand on/near my gun so I can produce it quickly if needed. But so far, doing that, it's never been needed. A scary yet innocent person won't care about what I just did, but a bg will keep walking because now I've created a situation they weren't counting on, and they know that since I've stared them down for a few seconds I'll be able to give a great description to the police.

    I also know what I sound like when I walk. I suggest everyone else does too. Because as you're walking down the street, if you don't know what you sound like, it makes it much harder to hear when other people get in your area, which makes it easy for someone to come up behind you. If I hear someone behind me all of a sudden, I stop and turn around. If someone's trying to get me from behind I've now just blown that for them, and now they also know that I have their description.

    The way you carry yourself and what your head does as you walk goes a long way in marking you as easy prey or someone to avoid too. Your bearing, self-possession, etc. is a huge part of self defense.

    Options
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  6. #95
    Member Array Chicagobill's Avatar
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    Brandish

    The word brandish in this pole: does it mean reveal your weapon, or draw?
    Brandishing means to wave around in an unruly manner. Is this what you mean?

  7. #96
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    A gun is not a talisman..

    when a person has direct experience dealing with violent predatory people, they can quickly realize that the most dangerous people among the citizenry are not always deterred by the exhibition or presentation of a weapon. Common sense and the careful weighing of circumstances ( risk v gains v consequence) are not a substantial part of what makes up most violent crime. If it were, most violent crimes would not occur. Can a firearm help? Sure!, its a force multiplier. To what degree it deters ( if at all) has more to do with the nature of the criminal at hand and less to do with any belief that it acts as a magic charm.

    If the criminal you encounter happens to be mentally disturbed, under the influence of drugs, suffering from the effects of drug withdrawal, responding to a perceived dire need or pressured by gang influence.. good luck trying to predict their actions vs the magic charm.
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  8. #97
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    A gun is not a talisman..

    when a person has direct experience dealing with violent predatory people, they can quickly realize that the most dangerous people among the citizenry are not always deterred by the exhibition or presentation of a weapon. Common sense and the careful weighing of circumstances ( risk v gains v consequence) are not a substantial part of what makes up most violent crime. If it were, most violent crimes would not occur. Can a firearm help? Sure!, its a force multiplier. To what degree it deters ( if at all) has more to do with the nature of the criminal at hand and less to do with any belief that it acts as a magic charm.

    If the criminal you encounter happens to be mentally disturbed, under the influence of drugs, suffering from the effects of drug withdrawal, responding to a perceived dire need or pressured by gang influence.. good luck trying to predict their actions vs the magic charm.
    Totally agree. I'm not always sure that people realize that the moment you draw a firearm, EVERYTHING changes. Every other person around you will react to it in some way and you have no way of knowing how or controlling it. Everyone else may not know who the good guy is, what is going on, etc.

    This always comes to mind esp. when people describe how they'd react to something like a convenience store hold up where they seem to believe they'll have the element of surprise and be the one to take control of the situation. Odds are good someone will just scream, "put that way, you'll get us all killed!"
    Renaldow likes this.
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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #98
    Senior Member Array D_FIN's Avatar
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    To many variables and not enough options here to really weigh in. None of the options provide for retreating to a safer place. ie... Car building move to be around other people. Also Suspicious does not necessarily mean they are a threat. If no weapon is seen drawing a gun even in warning can get you in a lot of legal trouble.

    My first act would be to anaylize then create space unless I could simply get in my car and lock the door. Most people looking for a victim are looking for an easy victim. Simply looking at them like they are up to no good makes you look like you are not an easy victim. Most will move on from there.

    Sure there may be a situation where you can read for sure that one or more suspicious people most likely mean you harm without actually seeing a weapon but that is only one of many possible situations.

    I recently had a guy knocking on my door one night. My dog went nuts which happens often enough when kid's friends show up, and they show up at all hours so I wasn't too worried and was trying to get the dog to chill until I realized there were no friends. Some guy had ran out of gas and was trying to let us know why his truck was in front of the house while he walked down to a gas station. It was late so I had to go back to my room to retrieve my gun before talking to the guy only to find the wife had already slipped outside to see what was going on. I wasn't super pleased at that or me for having to run get my gun instead of having on me, but when she came back in she was holding her shield in her hand so I wasn't to worried. I ended up putting my shoes on grabbing a gas can and driving the guy to the gas station. Because of the time of day and the fact that we don't get many visitors we don't know it was suspicious. Plenty of late night home invasions happening. The guy never saw the wife's gun or mine even though we were ready for trouble.
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  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_FIN View Post
    To many variables and not enough options here to really weigh in. None of the options provide for retreating to a safer place. ie... Car building move to be around other people. Also Suspicious does not necessarily mean they are a threat. If no weapon is seen drawing a gun even in warning can get you in a lot of legal trouble.

    My first act would be to anaylize then create space unless I could simply get in my car and lock the door. Most people looking for a victim are looking for an easy victim. Simply looking at them like they are up to no good makes you look like you are not an easy victim. Most will move on from there.

    Sure there may be a situation where you can read for sure that one or more suspicious people most likely mean you harm without actually seeing a weapon but that is only one of many possible situations.

    I recently had a guy knocking on my door one night. My dog went nuts which happens often enough when kid's friends show up, and they show up at all hours so I wasn't too worried and was trying to get the dog to chill until I realized there were no friends. Some guy had ran out of gas and was trying to let us know why his truck was in front of the house while he walked down to a gas station. It was late so I had to go back to my room to retrieve my gun before talking to the guy only to find the wife had already slipped outside to see what was going on. I wasn't super pleased at that or me for having to run get my gun instead of having on me, but when she came back in she was holding her shield in her hand so I wasn't to worried. I ended up putting my shoes on grabbing a gas can and driving the guy to the gas station. Because of the time of day and the fact that we don't get many visitors we don't know it was suspicious. Plenty of late night home invasions happening. The guy never saw the wife's gun or mine even though we were ready for trouble.
    None of the options offered have any basis in reality.
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  11. #100
    Member Array flnt4evr's Avatar
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    I live in upstate NY..no matter what happens if I draw my weapon I'm going to jail . The question then becomes for how long. And I can kiss my ccw permit good -by.

  12. #101
    Member Array Renaldow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagobill View Post
    The word brandish in this pole: does it mean reveal your weapon, or draw?
    Brandishing means to wave around in an unruly manner. Is this what you mean?
    I think most of us are taking it to mean pull or at least reveal. State laws and terminology vary, but it generally means to display it somehow.
    Chicagobill likes this.

  13. #102
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    Brandishment usually requires "intent" be shown to intimidate/threaten. Inadvertent exposure wouldn't be brandishing, per se, but that doesn't mean one couldn't be charged with that and have to defend themselves in court either.
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  14. #103
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    I think azqkr nailed it.
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  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renaldow View Post
    I think most of us are taking it to mean pull or at least reveal. State laws and terminology vary, but it generally means to display it somehow.

    Yes, that's how I intended it to be interpreted. Have the gun out early, possibly at your side pointing to the ground, not in any way wildly swinging it around. It would be a methodical, controlled move to display that you are armed, and to be ready to use it that much faster if necessary.

    The alternative is to only draw just before you intend to fire, absent the threat going away. In this case, the gun coming unholstered translates to a much higher likelihood of it being shot than the brandishing alternative, as this is your intent and in this case, there is no time left to question its use. It must be used because the guy is upon you with the knife.
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  16. #105
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    Perhaps one way around it, and not something in the poll, is to unholster the weapon on the side of your body pointing away from the threat, and have it at the ready there, pointing to the ground. Because you aren't displaying it to the approaching man, you aren't "intending" to threaten him; he can't see it and you didn't intend for him to see it. Meanwhile you have the gun at the ready, to reveal when indicated.

    You don't get the advantages of brandishing, but then again you don't get the legal jeopardy of brandishing. However, you do have the gun ready to be put to use or brandish quickly.

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