Incident at the movies

This is a discussion on Incident at the movies within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This story made my blood run cold...icy cold. Especially in light of the fact that a police officer murdered last night in the county just ...

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Thread: Incident at the movies

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    This story made my blood run cold...icy cold. Especially in light of the fact that a police officer murdered last night in the county just to the north. He was following a "suspicious" vehicle into the parking lot of an all night Publix grocery store. The car had barely stopped (shown by the store surveillance cameras) before a man leaped from the car already firing a handgun. At least 10 rds were fired. The man kept advancing as he fired. At least five rounds hit the officer who never had a chance to draw or call for help. The last shot that struck him was fired from a range of four feet.

    The liklihood that we as civilians will face such a near ambush situation are extremely remote. The cop was doing his job by literally looking for trouble so we citizens won't stumble into a similar problem with these same wolves.

    Still, according to the OP, the men ran at his friend with a gun already drawn. I'm already shaking as I contemplate my possible actions.

    I submit that any time a stranger rushes at you in a darkened parking lot where there are other potential sources of "help" (should he claim to be seeking help instead of having evil intentions if he makes it to trial) can and should automatically be treated as hostile. In this case, I'm thinking proximity is my friend. The critical issue is whether I'm fully out of the car or still transitioning when a firearm is presented. If the BG is close enough to touch and I'm still in transition with part of my lower body still in the car, maybe I grab my chest and fake a heart attack. It's kinda obvious from the grey in my goatee that I'm no spring chicken. As I hit the ground I begin to "convulse" and roll so that I can safely draw. My only hope is that I'm in the dark and there is even darker shadow next to the car. Maybe they'll take off with the realization that if I have a heart attack while they're robbing me and they get caught and I die...it's felony murder for them both. But say they're not so streetwise.

    As I said, in my way of thinking (comes from Aikido) proximity favors my situation. So I drop to the ground and they move to follow so they can lift my wallet, steal my keys and be gone. As they close I'm in the process of the draw. If they're close enough to lift my wallet and keys they're close enough for me to grab by the clothing...maybe to gasp MY HEART...HELP....ME.....as I shove my gun into his gut and pull the trigger several times. The muzzle blast alone is enough to avulse flesh (rip it open). Then I shove the closest hit target to the side and engage the next...putting one or more into his buddy. The big danger from shooting at literal contact is that flesh might foul the action and cause a jam.

    Everything I am...all my training has ingrained in me the necessity of acting when confronted. I don't freeze. I don't hesitate. I've already made the crucial decisions of morality and law. It might be shown later that I could have made better decisions, but I'll stand or fall on my actions of the moment. That's just me. As was Patton's philosophy: A good plan executed with extreme violence right now is better than a perfect plan tomorrow. I'm at peace with that.
    Last edited by ExSoldier; August 11th, 2007 at 05:49 PM. Reason: spelling and format
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    You never know if the BG is one who dosen't want to leave witnesses or not until its is to late. I think I would have my engine running and my hand on my gun especially if I had to park a ways out. I would leave the engine running until I had checked the area out.

  4. #33
    Member Array knpjdad's Avatar
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    I like the " gasp MY HEART...HELP....ME....." approach... I've thought about this tactic before, and even practiced a few times, "while no one was watching" of course!!
    I wear a seatbelt, but I hope to never need it, I use smoke detectors in my house, but I hope to never need them, I carry life insurance, but I hope to never need it, I carry a weapon, but I hope to never need it.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Where in Orlando lets you have that kind of space?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    You never know if the BG is one who dosen't want to leave witnesses or not until its is to late. I think I would have my engine running and my hand on my gun especially if I had to park a ways out. I would leave the engine running until I had checked the area out.
    My daughter used to manage a store in Millennium Mall (now she's managing a bigger store for the same firm here in Miami) and when I would visit, I could never find a parking space for my minivan that affords the tactical advantages of which you speak. 'Course the handling characteristics of my minivan are more similar to your average aircraft carrier....but the parking spaces leave a lot to be desired.

    Do you think that if you've been specifically targeted for a robbery they're going to let you spot them until you're parked, engine off and you're transitioning to the pavement? Remember, the advantage is almost always on the side of the hunter....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #35
    Member Array phaed's Avatar
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    well said exsoldier (your first post). "fortune favors the bold."

    as for the OP, SA is key to leveraging that fortune.
    War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink No yells. Some giggling...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
    So yell at me if this was already mentioned, I deserve it. But I bet no one mentioned these tactics. NEVER just drive into a parking lot and park without looking around first. Drive around first and surveill the situation, looking for anyone suspicious. And never immediately get out of the car. Take another look around. Other tactics include always backing into a parking space so you can make a quick getaway. This tactic saved my car and maybe my life once.
    In Miami FL finding a parking space at any major mall is like a post apocalyptic event: The Road Warrior. Sure I'll cruise the area....looking for a space big enough to handle my NIMITZ class minivan without too much manuevering. I will back into a spot if I can get the angles right. I'm pretty good on knowing the exact dimensions of my car and on relying on the side mirrors.

    I'm always in Condition Yellow and I'm pretty good at spotting the movements that seem to mirror my own. Of course having taught in the inner city for the last 12 years, plus my time as a state Parole and Probation Officer I know predator behavior pretty well. If my spidey sense tingles I'll identify the reasons just as I always do.

    Don't get me wrong: What you say makes excellent street sense for everybody. It's just that sometimes....life intrudes. That's why Condition Yellow exists.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    My thoughts on it:

    I would have already looked around at who might be in the vicinity to approach me, before I got out of my vehicle. And when I do exit my vehicle, I am constantly scanning the area and the people nearby. I would like to believe I would have been ready for them, and if I saw a gun and/or aggression, I would have been firing.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
    I still frequently visit Tampa, and it's scary. Especially around USF. I grew up in a large, primarily minority, city, so I know to keep my eyes open at all times.
    Funny how the really BAD GUYS seem to gravitate to college's. Danny Rolling, the infamous and now executed Gainesville spree killer? It's like their twisted instinct tells them that the sheep are there ready and waiting to be shorn or slaughtered.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  10. #39
    Member Array Dean407's Avatar
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    I wonder what makes the BG's think your buddy was a good target?

    Like other's I do try to be aware of my surroundings.

    People don't appear from nowhere. Though, in the dark it's easier to hide behind SUV's and minivans.

    If you carry though, at least you have a fighting chance.

    Does your buddy carry now?

  11. #40
    Member Array phaed's Avatar
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    my NIMITZ class minivan
    lol
    War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Color Codes

    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    ....just very tiring maintaining "yellow" on a swivel for several hours.
    Yellow is designed to be maintained as naturally and as effortlessly as your breathing. You can eat, sleep and live in Yellow. I do. It's when your spidey sense tingles and for some reason you detect a distinct THREAT that you shift one notch up the alert scale to ORANGE. This indeed is very difficult to maintain over any lengthy period of time. In my environment ORANGE is a fairly rare event, but definitely gets the heart pumping in a good way.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question I wonder....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
    I've observed in Phila. and Tampa that colleges are somehow located in what I would consider bad areas. Never could understand that. In the suburbs it's not that much of a problem. USF in Tampa is near a bad area. There were a half-dozen car-jackings recently, within a few blocks of the campus.
    I wonder when the universities were first located in those areas if it was a nicer demographic and turned "bad" later? In the case of University of Florida at Gainesville, it's right downtown in a VERY nice area. I don't think Gainesville HAS any semblance of an "inner city" or a bad side of town. Yet that campus has one of the highest percentages for forcible rape in the nation. I think it's because that Raiford State Prison is just down the road.

    BTW, some friends of mine in the Florida Army National Guard are of the opinion that racially speaking, Tampa is the next city ripe for a race riot. Apparently it's a powder keg. But that observation is nothing new. I've been hearing the same thing since 1978. I'd hate to see what it might look like after a Katrina type storm strike. Lots of hatred in that place. They've had a lot of muzzie problems, too.

    Do you know what they call folks from Tampa? Well, if you're from New York....you're a NEW YORKER. If you're from Miami....you're a Miamian and if you're from Tampa you're a....TAMPON. Maybe THAT has something to do with racial and/or religious tensions....ya think?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Funny how the really BAD GUYS seem to gravitate to college's. Danny Rolling, the infamous and now executed Gainesville spree killer? It's like their twisted instinct tells them that the sheep are there ready and waiting to be shorn or slaughtered.
    Believe me, the reason the thugs are hanging out by colleges (I'm not talking about the aberrant sexual deviant) is because the college kids get their drugs from them. They are a cash-cow for the thugs, they're soft as little pink slugs, flushed with money that mommy and daddy send them, and they want their dime bags and pills and crap: why would the thugs go anywhere else? The livin' is easy for them in the college towns. You want to blame someone for the thugs making money, doing violence, blame the college kids for providing them a market.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation Dang! One heckuva EXCELLENT Point!

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Believe me, the reason the thugs are hanging out by colleges (I'm not talking about the aberrant sexual deviant) is because the college kids get their drugs from them. They are a cash-cow for the thugs, they're soft as little pink slugs, flushed with money that mommy and daddy send them, and they want their dime bags and pills and crap: why would the thugs go anywhere else? The livin' is easy for them in the college towns. You want to blame someone for the thugs making money, doing violence, blame the college kids for providing them a market.
    Absolutely correct and something that was completely off my radar.

    Just cuz I never did any drugs 'cept alcohol I keep forgetting that the kids seem to live to get HIGH.

    When I took my polygraphs for the army and to get on the Department, it was always just assumed that EVERY man woman and child in the USA had at some point in life gotten stoned, snorted, swallowed or mainlined something. They kept asking me if I was SURE I wanted to deny...'cause it was OKAY....and so I insisted. When that little needle just sailed across the paper steady as a rock they were astounded. They called me (get this) the LAST American Virgin!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    dean407.......nope, he dosn't carry. He is active duty military and no slouch mentaly or physically, but he is one who never had to or saw/felt the need to be armed off-duty. It's been a few days now and he's decompressed a little......I think he'll be invited to join me on my next range day. He's pretty smart so an introduction to the laws will be recieved with careful consideration....his position here at work is a testament to him being responseable. I'll introduce him to this site when I see and talk to him.

    ExSolider.......I say "yellow on a swivel" with a bit of sarcasim. I'm predominatly yellow most of my wakeing day......however when out shopping or whatever with my daughters, I remain at a "high yellow"
    not just out of protection of my family, but also because I know who and what I was as a teenager, and now as the father two beautiful, (they got that from thier mother......I'm too fugly to claim "pretty" genes) "endowed" female metabolisms of teenaged estrogen I "keep the watch" a little more 'closely' than I normally would. Entering, exiting, and the walk to/from the car is always the "highlight" of any trip. SA is and will always keep our 'spidy sense' up and working.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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