Incident at the movies

Incident at the movies

This is a discussion on Incident at the movies within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's a situation that happened to a shipmate of mine recently. I've replayed it and possiable responses in my mind for a little while now ...

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Thread: Incident at the movies

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Incident at the movies

    Here's a situation that happened to a shipmate of mine recently. I've replayed it and possiable responses in my mind for a little while now and would like for ya'll to sound off on it for some diffrent perspectives..........

    My buddy arrived at a local mall in J'ville, FL to meet his GF and catch a movie. It's early evening on a weeknite (8pm ish), he arrived and located a parking spot not out in BFE but not right next to the mall/movie entrence either. (note: the mall/movie is busy but not overly so) Buddy gets out of his car and is immidently approached by two men......One of them pulls a gun and orders him back in. All three get in his car and they take him to a nearby ATM, force him to withdraw what he can ($300) and drive back to a back/rear parking lot at the mall. The two robbers take his keys and cell phone, throw them accross the lot into some bushes, and run off.
    My buddy retrieves his keys and cell, gets the cops there and after a lengthly review of ATM and mall parking lot security tapes, the cops get good pic's of the robbers/kidnappers and tell my buddy that they'll probely catch them in a couple days.

    So here's the scene.......your alone, meeting whoever at the mall and are held up almost immidently after exiting your car....naturally your carrying.....My buddy was not. I've already verballly repremanded him about his lack of SA, he just felt safe in a lit mall parking lot with patrons out and about, but not conjestedly so.

    Would love to hear your thought on this
    Last edited by goldshellback; August 9th, 2007 at 08:17 AM. Reason: spelling/lack of coffee
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  2. #2
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    Personally I think that every time you park your car to get out, a small window of opportunity exists for a BG , because you are at a more vulnerable situation than usual and your SA has to be up before you park. I know coming home at night in the country, and parking in the garage my wife and I are vulnerable to someone stepping around the corner behind us just as we are pulling in the garage. As we approach the house our SA is wide open, looking for anything out of place. However, my g27 is in my hand, while my wife is watching from a different view in the car and ready to give me a heads-up while I finish parking.

    Your friend was lucky. In our rural environment my wife and I will likely face a BG with lethal intentions.
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    Senior Member Array raysheen's Avatar
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    Well (as usual) it depends on the situation, but I think it this instance them telling you to get into the car and drive you to an ATM is a lot different than someone telling you to get into a car on the side of the road...I would be inclined to "play along" at first if I felt I couldn't get my gun into action and perhaps try to find a way to draw in the car or while exiting the car at the ATM....can't really say for sure though because ever situation is different, but I would certainly attempt to draw and shoot since I will assume that anyone that is pointing a gun at me has intentions to kill me when they are done with me and I will not go down without a fight. At first glance I think this is one of a minority of situations where an immediate and overwhelming response (something I'm generally in favor of) might not be as good as waiting a few minutes to play your cards right.

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    I think it starts with not parking where there are people around. If there is anybody outside standing/walking around near where I plan to park, I move to a different spot. I know that I'm vulerable in the car, and possibly more so for the second it takes me to get out. I'll park several rows over or a bit furthur away. Note that this isn't in response to a confirmed threat, where I would just be outta there. This is just my "yellow and a half," and allows me to be on my feet, watching, and on more even ground.
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    Member Array tk4878's Avatar
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    Not only getting out of your car, but into it as well. When my son was 6 mo old, a scruffy looking man approached from no where.
    He got between my elderly mother and me. He forced his self into my space as I was putting my son in his car seat. He wanted money.
    Then when I told him I didn't have money, he wanted a ride to the gas station to get gas because he was empty. I motioned for my mother to get in the front passenger seat and threw the keys in the front seat. As soon as her door closed, BG started to push in. Well, you don't mess with a woman who has a small child, they tend to turn rabid. I don't remember what I said to him, but it made him back out of the car enough for me to get some room, then I pushed him back and closed the door on his hand as I jumped back in. Amazingly, his car had enough gas to make it out of the parking lot.
    Called DH, who got there in two minutes. He called it in but no one found him. Can you believe that it took another incident after this for me to pursue cwp?
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    It has been said as well...If you are 'jacked'..never go to a second location with your assailants,avoid it at the point of HTH,the reasoning is the second location is were your body will be found...
    Iam glad that your friend made it with just a little cash missing and is safe now,a close one for sure.
    Last edited by simon; August 9th, 2007 at 08:46 AM. Reason: additional info sp check

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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    I don't know what I would do if someone got the drop on me. If there were people around I might yell gun or something and run behind a car if cover was close. I think you would have to play it by ear and just try to keep your head. I have often wondered if looking over the BG's shoulder and saying " excuse me, Officer!" would give me enough time to move to cover or draw and fire my weapon. I carry a glock with one in the chamber so no safety to mess with. I might be able to pull it off, might not.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    That's a bad situation to be in. Even with good SA, you can't be sure you'll see everything. If the BG's are behind a car or otherwise out of sight, they could seemingly materialize where you thought nobody was.

    If you do end up on the wrong end of a gun with demands being made, the best thing I can think of is to get to cover as soon as humanly possible while screaming for help. In a parking lot, unless you're boxed in, cover (or at least concealment, depending on the weapon being used) is everywhere. You just have to get to it. Chances are the BG isn't going to pursue you, action-movie-style, but will run as soon as his plan breaks down. If he does chase you, you still have a better chance with some steel between you and him.

    If this involves throwing your wallet (your dummy wallet, naturally) or backing up slowly, telling him not to shoot you, until you have an escape route, by all means, do it.

    I would avoid getting back in the car like the plague. My thinking is he will either just shoot me in the car, or take me somewhere and shoot me there. Not to mention my mobility and access to my gun is much more limited in a car.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Your friend needs to make friends with the boys in Dam Neck, GA, who visit Jack occassionally.

    Loss of situational awareness. Lots of variables, but if I thought they had the slightest intention of killing me...

  10. #10
    Member Array Duncan223's Avatar
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    Damn, that's a bad situation. I'm glad your friend is alive.

    Its been said many times - NEVER GET IN THE CAR. I'm not sure how a person could follow this rule when a gun is pointed at your chest, and hopefully I'll never need to make the decision. However, I changed from back pocket to front pocket carry due to this kind of scenario. While it appears that I'm retrieving my car keys, I'm pulling my gun. I carry with one in the pipe and there's no safety to mess with. Point and shoot.

    Of course, there's a big difference between mental preparation and physical training at the range - and what happens in real life.

    Hopefully the cops nail the criminals and they spend a few years in prison for armed robbery, kidnapping and felony possession of a firearm (10/20/life!!!).
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  11. #11
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    First, let me say that I am never, EVER, getting into a car with someone who's pointing a gun at me.. Absolutely not. For all I know they are just putting me in the car to shoot me so that blood doesn't get everywhere and so that they can easily transport my body and dump it and not get caught trying to wrestle a dead body in a car.

    ABSOLUTELY NOT getting into a car by force.

    Number two: Because I've heard of criminals doing odd things while arriving and departing in cars, I have a strict habit of locking my doors as I'm both exiting and entering the vehicle so that if anything happens, all I have to do is close the door and I'm either safely locked in, or we're all locked out.

    Now, I don't know how your friend was approached by these two men, if it was one from the front and one from behind or both of them just walked up to him, but I'll use my imagination and try to play out how I think it would have gone down with me.

    As I'm getting out of my car I've already locked my doors. I close the door, turn to start walking to the mall and find two men approaching me from the front with a gun demanding I get back in the car and take them somewhere. I have my keys in one hand and my purse in the other. They also have the drop on me.

    Because I'm at the front of the vehicle, my best cover would be the engine of either my vehicle or a vehicle next to me. I have a small advantage in that because of the cars, we are in a funnel. We can only move back and forth, no side to side is available.

    I would throw my purse and keys at the shooter as hard as I could while instantly moving for cover of the nearest engine (hopefully my own because it's big and would provide good cover). I would draw, and if they aren't already running in another direction, I'm firing. They threatened me with a deadly weapon, I'm certainly afraid for my life, that's enough for me to return the favor.

    Whether I hit them or not, if they start running, it's over. I'm getting the best description of them I can, checking around me for other possible threats while calling the police (P.S. I never keep my cell phone in my purse, it goes on my body somewhere, so that I don't have to leave my cover to retrieve my purse to call the police). Depending on how many shots I fired I may do a tactical reload as I know myself well enough to know I'll want to be doing something: with the adrenaline and the fear and everything, I'd be as fidgety as a mouse on steroids.

    If I felt that all was clear I might move to safety, as I don't want to risk having them come back for revenge (provided they aren't both on the ground).

    Now, that is the ideal situation, but nothing is ever ideal, is it. If they are too close or have approached from both directions and have me cornered, well, to borrow a phrase from PAX, I'm fighting like a cornered cat.

    Let's say the gunman is in front of me, the non-gunman is behind. The gunman is my greatest concern because he's the biggest threat. I've just gotten out of my car and shut the door, the car's now locked. He tells me to get back in and drive them somewhere. I tell him to back up a few spaces so I can open my door. When I open the door I'm going to swing it open as wide and hard as I can and drop behind it for both a block and at least some cover, as which point I'm moving back hard and fast to bring all my body weight into my elbow and into the threat behind me. With him, at least distracted, it's time for my gun. I'll draw, and assess which is my greater threat. The guy with the gun may already have ran or he may be trying to get past the blocking door or he may have already succeeded, or he's making shots of his own. If he's on the warpath towards me he's getting shot at, the other guy is probably going to get a bullet too unless he's running because he's between me and cover and that's a bad place to be when I'm fighting for my life.

    When all is said and done, again, I'm calling the police and probably doing a tactical reload while shivering and praying (provided, of course, that I'm still alive and have the breath in my lungs to pray).

    No matter which scenario you throw at me, I'm NOT getting in that car. I know all too well what can happen once a bad guy gets you to their destination. I'll die fighting before I go through that again.

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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirt.

    My encounter came in the eraly 90s in Daytona Beach, FL while attending school and deliverring pizza. I pulled into the parking spot in the housing projects and was immediately blocked into the spot by another car. The passenger of that car jumped out and ran up to the passenger door of my car to yank it open. There had been several kidnap/carjack/forced ATM withdrawls in recent weeks and a fair share hed ended up with beaten and in at least one case dead victims even after full compliance.

    I kept the doors locked always and when the guy at the passenger door looked up, most likely to order me to open the door and probably threaten me with a weapon, he was staring into the 2" J frame I had drawn, then the light from the 6 D-Cell maglight I took on deliveries. He turned and vacated the area immediatly. The car blocking me in tore off. If his hands had enterred my field of view, they were below sight, with a gun I would have shot him through the window. I never saw the driver exit the vehicle.

    The key, as stated is to watch your surroundings. If I had not done so I would be stuck going along for the ride and praying for an opportuntiy to either fight back or make a break for it. An ounce of preparation is worth a pound of improvisation.

    The second main item is, have a gun. Big shout out to Superhouse15, also a board member, for lending me his model 36 S&W while my 1911 was off being hard chromed!

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Hey Everyone.....Thanx for sounding off on this. The predominate theme here is mostly to not get back in that car! I agree......and hope none of us ever have to deal with this kind of situation. Everybodys views are welcome and enlighting. My buddy and myself will take something positive from your responses. I'm all for expanding my knowledge curve. Again.....Thanks
    Goldie
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    Ex Member Array fludy12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    My buddy arrived at a local mall in J'ville, FL to meet his GF and catch a movie.
    Hmmm... Let me guess... Regency Square Mall at the corner of Monument and Atlantic BLVD? I lived near there in Jax when I was stationed at NAVSTA Mayport.

    That mall is NOT in a good area! Or the Orange Park Mall over by NAS Jax? The "Westside" is a pretty bad area, too. Then again, most areas around Navy bases tend to be pretty bad...

  15. #15
    Member Array PgSqlQuery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon View Post
    It has been said as well...If you are 'jacked'..never go to a second location with your assailants,avoid it at the point of HTH,the reasoning is the second location is were your body will be found...
    Iam glad that your friend made it with just a little cash missing and is safe now,a close one for sure.
    Indeed. I won't be forced into my car. I won't go somewhere, where it's more 'quiet'. Then again, I will likely shoot back, as well.

    As I teach my kids, 'MAKE NOISE'. Armed or not. "HELP! HELP!", etc, if you have to shoot, witnesses will likely remember you calling for help.
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