You're at baggage claim and a gun shot rings out..... - Page 3

You're at baggage claim and a gun shot rings out.....

This is a discussion on You're at baggage claim and a gun shot rings out..... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 I have no doubt that your outlook is much more commonly-held than mine. Experience often formulates our moral and ethical imperatives. ...

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Thread: You're at baggage claim and a gun shot rings out.....

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    You're at baggage claim and a gun shot rings out.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I have no doubt that your outlook is much more commonly-held than mine. Experience often formulates our moral and ethical imperatives. I have personally had two friends die who might well have been saved by onlookers who instead did nothing as they died. I don't think I could live with myself if I were to do the same while others died before me. My conscience simply wouldn't allow it.
    You're right, I'm jaded by my experiences. Just one of many examples: One of my men earned a Purple Heart during an attack against us...while Armed Forces News was broadcasting a speech by a Senator stating it was our actions generating the attacks. Listening to that garbage, supported by American voters who keep that person in Congress, while getting pounded with mortars and listening to people in surrounding tents getting shredded, was a bizarre experience. This honorable warrior of mine was later virtually abandoned by the VA and I personally contributed hundreds toward needed medical equipment for him.

    The same citizenry that treats its warriors this way can turn on an honorable CCW defender in a heartbeat. No thanks. I've repeatedly done my part and taken my blows. I'm way beyond it being my turn, and if random adults around me who could have been armed chose to be defenseless and die as a result, very possibly the same people who turned a blind eye to the VA where many men died waiting for care, I will sleep with a clear conscience. The loyalty of my life lies with my family and friends, not strangers. This may sound bitter, but it really isn't. I just no longer feel obligated to put myself in mortal danger for random strangers, probably because strangers have repeatedly turned their backs on those who I care about.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Consider that sheepdogs DO retire eventually. Consider myself a retired sheepdog [ though I don't believe in the term as it's commonly used ] after having spent 28 years on the streets making other peoples business my business. Having protected charges professionally across the US for a decade or so.

    Could I still be an unknown to me someone's protector under a certain set of circumstances? Absolutely, but I no longer hold the mindset that because I'm armed, I automatically need to run to gunfire. BTW, have you yourself ever run TO gunfire and engaged? Any experience in being that "sheepdog"? Or like most, is it a mental exercise that's not been experienced and survived?

    No one takes on the responsibility of being anothers sheepdog simply by exercising their 2a, even as you may believe that's your destiny, it's a choice not a responsibility. I'm retired, I now longer run to gunfire, I did my time as a protector [ and never considered myself a dog, any dog, in doing so.

    And you may have the tools to stop it, but how would one ever predict they had the ability to stop it until the after action report?
    Very well put.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    You're right, I'm jaded by my experiences. Just one of many examples: One of my men earned a Purple Heart during an attack against us...while Armed Forces News was broadcasting a speech by a Senator stating it was our actions generating the attacks. Listening to that garbage, supported by American voters who keep that person in Congress, while getting pounded with mortars and listening to people in surrounding tents getting shredded, was a bizarre experience. This honorable warrior of mine was later virtually abandoned by the VA and I personally contributed hundreds toward needed medical equipment for him.

    The same citizenry that treats its warriors this way can turn on an honorable CCW defender in a heartbeat. No thanks. I've repeatedly done my part and taken my blows. I'm way beyond it being my turn, and if random adults around me who could have been armed chose to be defenseless and die as a result, very possibly the same people who turned a blind eye to the VA where many men died waiting for care, I will sleep with a clear conscience. The loyalty of my life lies with my family and friends, not strangers. This may sound bitter, but it really isn't. I just no longer feel obligated to put myself in mortal danger for random strangers, probably because strangers have repeatedly turned their backs on those who I care about.
    My seven years in the infantry was during peace time, so I never had to take my turn. One of those guys I mentioned was murdered after he did twenty-one years in the army. Perhaps I'm just feeling guilty in part because I feel like he took my turn for me. Hard to know.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    My seven years in the infantry was during peace time, so I never had to take my turn. One of those guys I mentioned was murdered after he did twenty-one years in the army. Perhaps I'm just feeling guilty in part because I feel like he took my turn for me. Hard to know.
    I'd consider myself lucky if I'd not had to experience combat. Can't take the experience away, the lessons learned, however, I've always told those who served and didn't see combat that they were lucky ones.

    I wanted to and had a scholarship to a Boston art school out of HS, however uncle had other plans for me. When I got out, life took me in another direction altogether, in no small part due to the military experiences IMO.
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    I'd consider myself lucky if I'd not had to experience combat. Can't take the experience away, the lessons learned, however, I've always told those who served and didn't see combat that they were lucky ones.
    Yup, all things considered, I'm one of the luckiest guys I can think of.
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  7. #36
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    Ya, tell me about it. Great wife, faithful dog, and your own shooting range lol
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    In most of these hypothetical scenarios, I would say grab my daughter and run, because if people choose not to protect themselves, that's not my problem. My daughters safety and my safety are my priority. Given that this is a location where people are not strictly forbidden from carrying, but the rules make it difficult for the vast majority of people to be armed, ideally I would get my daughter somewhere that she will be safe, and at that point when she is somewhere that is somewhat safe, I will engage the shooter if possible.

    Absolutely. While in this "text-book" scenario, we are told it's one shooter, point of fact is in the panic of the moment you would have no clue how many shooters there are and where they are. People will be moving in 100 different directions and you will be lucky at all to get a good mental image of who is shooting who.

    I think there is a 99% chance the fog of war would take over. In the unlikely event of that 1%, and if I had a clear shot, and knew there were not multiples, I would take it because an incapacitated bad guy can't shoot my daughter. Or anyone else.

    This is a tough decision - I bet for many - because you will want to help. And the decision will need to be made in the blink of an eye. Let's hope that each of us makes the best fight or flight decision possible in the event we are involved as an innocent in an active shooter situation.
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  9. #38
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    I don't fly and if I did would not be armed in an airport unless I were picking up someone else. After yesterdays shooting I can see changes coming to transporting a firearm through an airport. IE; Security escort to your vehicle? Sad event, especially perpetrated by a former military member. Who can honestly say what they'd do until they were in that situation. I was surprised there was no armed security engaging that guy. These things are becoming more common place, so be prepared folks. Most people I know with a ccw permit don't carry except in certain times. We all need to increase the percentage of carry to 100% and train much more than we do now imho. Most ranges people shoot known distances from a stationary position. Mike mentioned shooting pistol from prone. I practice that and have never seen others outside of the military/police do this. We all should for sure. Strive to develop more move and shoot drills once basic marksmanship is attained.
    Last edited by 1911srule; January 7th, 2017 at 10:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
    At least in Colorado it is currently legal to concealed carry in the baggage claim area......here's the scenario....

    You arrive at the airport to pick up your daughter, flying in from the west coast. You're standing by baggage claim #3......then a shot rings out at baggage claim #2. Then a second shot, at which time you make visual contact of the shooter. Everyone around you, including your daughter quickly falls to the floor. You are carrying a 45, 1911. The shooter shoots a third and a fourth shot, turns and is walking toward you, popping people in the their skulls as they lie on the ground. He is 50 feet from you.

    What do you do?
    Here in Arkansas, as well as most other places I've been, anywhere inside the terminal building is a prohibited area, so if I'm a traveler, my weapon is in a locked case somewhere inside that baggage carousel, or if I'm picking someone up, it's locked up back in the truck. So my reaction is to seek cover immediately, find the nearest way out, and un-ass the area in the most expeditious means possible, taking my companion with me. No brag, that's just the way our self-defense laws work here.

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    Because carrying a firearm into a passenger terminal in FL is illegal, the "what would I do " question is moot for me.

    Armed or not, me and mine are exiting if that possibility exists. In lieu of that, if I were to be armed, I doubt I could make accurate shots at fifty yards, but it is my firm belief that my near misses would divert the gunman's attention from his original intent.

    I am not one to stand by and do nothing when I have the capability to do something to save lives. It's just not in me. I've rushed in like a fool before to assist and, yes, it's jammed me up a time or two. But I've never regretted my actions, and if things had gone badly for me, I could have gone to my grave without regret.
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    I've rushed in like a fool before to assist and, yes, it's jammed me up a time or two

    There comes a time when being foolish has to be tempered due to age and retiring from running to gunfire. I prefer to let the young bucks full of P and V take their shot [ pun intended ] at being foolish and rush headlong into battles that unless the fight comes to me personally is not my fight. Like musical chairs, one day you'll find you're the one left without a seat for playing the game too long.
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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    I've rushed in like a fool before to assist and, yes, it's jammed me up a time or two

    There comes a time when being foolish has to be tempered due to age and retiring from running to gunfire. I prefer to let the young bucks full of P and V take their shot [ pun intended ] at being foolish and rush headlong into battles that unless the fight comes to me personally is not my fight. Like musical chairs, one day you'll find you're the one left without a seat for playing the game too long.
    These old legs can no longer run to or from a fight. However, if I were to be on scene, were to be armed, and confronting an armed gunman were a viable option, then I may just play that game of musical chairs. Life itself is a game of musical chairs, regardless of how one plays. For me it's more a matter of living with myself afterwards. But that's me, and I don't require or expect it of others. I don't view it as "playing LEO" but as being a caring human.

    Now I've probably gone and ruined my curmudgeon image.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    These old legs can no longer run to or from a fight. However, if I were to be on scene, were to be armed, and confronting an armed gunman were a viable option, then I may just play that game of musical chairs. Life itself is a game of musical chairs, regardless of how one plays. For me it's more a matter of living with myself afterwards. But that's me, and I don't require or expect it of others. I don't view it as "playing LEO" but as being a caring human.

    Now I've probably gone and ruined my curmudgeon image.
    That's precisely where I'm at with it. It is easy to lose sight of in the many "what if" scenarios that get discussed on these threads.

    Don't worry about the curmudgeon thing. Your reputation remains intact.
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  15. #44
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    If there is any opportunity to retreat to cover, I/we would do so...and depending on movement of attacker(s), either keep going or stay and monitor...calling 911 in both cases.

    I carry for self-defense and that of family.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR View Post
    With my 43 and skills I'm almost certain that bullet wouldn't reach the desired target.
    If you feel that way about hitting the target then grabbing your daughter and running is the smart and responsible thing to do. In fact, getting your daughter out should be the only thing you worry about.

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