defending against teens

[SOLOLUCKY]

morally right and legally right are 2 distinctly different things.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[kavity]

Its called "intent", and if there weren't any screws in desperate need of tightening, that's good enough for a draw-down, in most states, as long as the state has a provision for LF in defense of another.

"Brian" and/or his sister need to find a new crowd to hang with, in general (obviously, "homie" felt he stood a chance of being accepted). Or, you need to move. Or, you need to decide to let it flow. Getting in a protracted homie war isn't good.

Talk to a local lawyer, if you haven't already, and get to be his/her friend. Get to know the cops in the area, as well. Shotties are great for dissuading crowds, as well... worth $200 in the trunk to me, in your shoes.

NO NO NO NO NO

There is no such thing as INTENT in self defense scenarios. It's Jeopardy. Trying to prove someone else's intentions is impossible at best--and any 2 bit lawyer is going to rip you a new one on the witness stand when you say "his intent was to stab brian with it".

[ccw9mm]

any 2 bit lawyer is going to rip you a new one on the witness stand when you say "his intent was to stab brian with it".

Good point. Intentions are internal, personal thoughts. Impossible to know them for certain. At best, you're guessing ... and that's simply not good enough. Remember, until actions prove otherwise, we're all citizens deemed to have earned the same benefit of the doubt, to have the same rights and privileges as anyone else.

Now, manifest intentions are something completely different. Someone standing there looking mean while holding a knife, is one thing. He looks mean. You imagine what he might be thinking, what he could do if so inclined. A good percentage of people driving cars during rush hour look like this, but none of them warrant a death sentence for that, despite having a deadly weapon (a 3500-lb car) in their hands.

Not unless those thoughts manifest themselves into overt action can you be certain there's a threat. That is when there's jeopardy, when the actual actions manifest themselves and put you in imminent risk of harm. Ability and Opportunity are not enough, with the guy just standing there stewing in his thoughts. Jeopardy is also required for you to take action against someone as a threat.

[downrange]

getting into a scuffle while you are carrying just lends the opportunity to get you gun taken away from you. any confrontation while your carrying has a whole new meaning than when your mono-a-mono with someone. IMO, back off and bring law enforcement into it.

however, if you wanna disarm, grease up and go hulk hogan on them, that's another situation altogether.

don't give the appearance that if all fails when your losing, you can just... eliminate.

[gotammo]

fear of great bodily harm or death when he grabbed a weapon, I thinks that qualifies.

[Spirit51]

You don't mention anything about filing a police report of the incident. Whenever a firearm is involved or present, even if it isn't actually drawn, it's vitally important to get your version of the events on the record first. What's to stop these GBs from calling the police first, claiming it was you who threatened them with a gun? You, then, become the BG and they, the victims.



Bad advice. Deadly force would not have been justified for simply picking up a screwdriver off the ground.

I have seen several people killed with a screwdriver. Don't underestimate the damage that can be done with one. I have seen many household objects used as weapons which resulted in a fatality.
Meat forks, nail guns, hammers, screwdrivers....even a child's toy.
When the drug dealer picked up a screwdriver to use as a weapon...he just armed himself.
I DO agree that a police report should have been made....if the BG come back a record of their threats could be useful.

[ExSoldier]

getting into a scuffle while you are carrying just lends the opportunity to get you gun taken away from you. any confrontation while your carrying has a whole new meaning than when your mono-a-mono with someone. IMO, back off and bring law enforcement into it.

Sometimes....it's....just....not....that....easy. This is one good reason to have either a thumbsnap or even a retention holster like the superb Blackhawk Serpa. I'd think, too that a good IWB while not affording specialized help in defeating a grab does so indirectly by keeping the gun very close to your body. But it can be argued that hand to hand is the first layer of self defense that might preclude having to use lethal force. Also it might be otherwise unavoidable. For example if you're presented with a knife attack where the BG that is 21 feet or less and you're not holding your gun in your hand you don't have the time to draw before he stabs you at least twice. Hence the necessity to go HTH. ALSO sometimes a scuffle is precipitated with little or NO warning.

The other guy has no idea you're armed or presumably he wouldn't go for the KO in the first place. You'll determine this as soon as hostile actions commence. If he's intent on strictly beating you senseless, then it's pretty much a straight forward issue of warding off the attack and breaking contact to do as you suggest. But if he zeroes in on that CCW holster he knows you're armed and THAT is his target and you can safely assume he has murder on his mind. Aikido and Jujuitsu taught me how to effectively fight from the ground. I think that's what I'd do: Drop to the ground and keep my gun side down. Fight from that position. Just my .02

[downrange]

good points and i agree ExSoldier. i did mean what i said as a general rule though. i, as well have a decent martial arts background even before the military and not only was i taught, but also found out that most full contact fights end up on the ground. to me, it's not worth the grappling and wrestling aspect of defending and offensive actions with hands all over the place with anyone else able to get hold of my own firearm. i merely meant to keep those few steps ahead as best as possible for that your in a different category when carrying as to the times your not. i, everyday, am in both situations because of work and it feel it's a different mind set because of that. it results in "what am i going to do different because i'm not as prepared as i would like to be."

P.S. on that note, i really don't like working in such a restricting state and didn't realize how much it would bug me until i actually did it. fortunately it's a temporary contract.

[DrLewall]

Yep, move out, then call in an air strike and have the place cleaned out! Scumbag drug dealin GBs!

[Travis Morgan]

You shoulda started by calling 911.