Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!" - Page 3

Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!"

This is a discussion on Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; No warning shots... There is nothing to play around with here. Shoot the threat until threat has been stopped. In a real life situation I ...

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Thread: Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!"

  1. #31
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    No warning shots... There is nothing to play around with here. Shoot the threat until threat has been stopped.

    In a real life situation I don't think I would have the discipline to pull off a Mozambique... There would probably be 4 or 5 center mass real quick before I really got a chance to go to the head and hopefully 4 or 5 in the chest will stop them.

    If not, then I would go to the head shot!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."


  2. #32
    Member Array mikep1230's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with many of the suggestions posted here. A lot of them are either just trying to escalate the ******* contest, or trying to get too fancy.

    In most cases, the guy who comes up to you on the street and demands your money is greedy and stupid... but not completely brain-dead. That's why pulling your gun (compared to his knife) usually ends the conflict immediately. The problem is with the guys who are actualy looking for an ego boost: they don't want your money so much as they want to prove that they can control other people (remember the bully in 2nd grade?). That's the type that will see your weapon as a personal challenge, and will respond instinctively with a comment aimed at knocking you down a notch: "it's not loaded." The problem here is their actions are based on ego, and not the brain: that's why you will *never* win this type of fight. Trying to prove that you're stronger than they are ("my gun *is* loaded, and my [blank] *is* bigger") just continues to increase the stakes until they run out of words and have no choice but to physically attack. And while the odds of surviving are in your favor, I think we're all aware of the consequences of such a victory.

    The other problem is much easier to explain. Every time you take your eyes off the threat, you give them an opening. Every second you spend thinking about ways to prove that your weapon is loaded, targeting the poor shrub, or (laugh) ejecting a round, is another second closer to you that they can get.

    Deflect the comment or, better yet, just ignore it. Continue responding to the threat the way you would if they hadn't said anything.

  3. #33
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    I'm not psychoanalyzing any punk with a knife demanding my money. Frankly, I don't care about their reasons, the size of their ego or otherwise.

    I'm being robbed at knifepoint by threat of death or violence by someone who is capable and has placed me in jeopardy. They have only a few moments to decide if they are going to stop their attack or I stop it for them.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    What he says isn't important. It's what he does that will have an impact on how long you both stay alive. If he stops advancing or retreats, I'll be taking advantage of his hesitation and keep backing away until I'm far enough to make a run. He can think whatever he wants about my gun.

    If he continues "moving with a purpose", he'll find out the hard way that I'm not bluffing.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array Cap'n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KellyCooper View Post
    If it happened to be further away yet there was no chance of escape, would a warning shot actually be somewhat justified?
    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    I think i'd prove to him that the gun was loaded first by firing a warning shot. Taking a life is bad, but beleive you me if the warning shot didn't do the trick i'd find out how well 9mm hollow points really work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    No warning shots... There is nothing to play around with here. Shoot the threat until threat has been stopped.
    Totally agree Bark'n! I can not think of any situation where a CCW'er would unholster his gun and fire warning shots.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Maybe one more warning "Do you really want to take that risk? STOP where you are or I will defend myself!"


    If that doesn't work I am sure a couple of magical rounds from my unloaded gun would work.

  7. #37
    Member Array Deacon51's Avatar
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    Knife wielding threat beyond 21' I command to, drop the knife, lay on the ground, face down, spread out your arms and cross your feet.

    Knife wielding threat inside 21' gets ventilated.

    I don't care what the ***** says. "That gun ain't loaded" or "Sorry dude, I don't mean no harm", as long as he's outside 21'.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array downrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikep1230 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with many of the suggestions posted here. A lot of them are either just trying to escalate the ******* contest, or trying to get too fancy.

    In most cases, the guy who comes up to you on the street and demands your money is greedy and stupid... but not completely brain-dead. That's why pulling your gun (compared to his knife) usually ends the conflict immediately. The problem is with the guys who are actualy looking for an ego boost: they don't want your money so much as they want to prove that they can control other people (remember the bully in 2nd grade?). That's the type that will see your weapon as a personal challenge, and will respond instinctively with a comment aimed at knocking you down a notch: "it's not loaded." The problem here is their actions are based on ego, and not the brain: that's why you will *never* win this type of fight. Trying to prove that you're stronger than they are ("my gun *is* loaded, and my [blank] *is* bigger") just continues to increase the stakes until they run out of words and have no choice but to physically attack. And while the odds of surviving are in your favor, I think we're all aware of the consequences of such a victory.

    The other problem is much easier to explain. Every time you take your eyes off the threat, you give them an opening. Every second you spend thinking about ways to prove that your weapon is loaded, targeting the poor shrub, or (laugh) ejecting a round, is another second closer to you that they can get.

    Deflect the comment or, better yet, just ignore it. Continue responding to the threat the way you would if they hadn't said anything.
    i mean no offense, but this ain't the movies. if the BG sees a gun and still has the stones to mouth off and threaten, then this unbalanced individual is too unpredictable and "crazy" to take any chances on. he could lunge like a retard.
    it's time to cleanse the gene pool.
    What's this button do?

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Just to interject a bit of levity here...

    I was working armed security in a suburban mall. Kids come up to me and one asks if my gun is loaded, because his Dad told him that security couldn't carry loaded guns.

    Yeah, I know. Maroons.

    So I proceeded to show him my magazine. At the time I carried Glaser safety slugs, blue tip. Well, that just proved to them that I was not carrying live rounds, because I had plastic ammo.

    Some days you just shoulda stayed home...
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n_America View Post
    Totally agree Bark'n! I can not think of any situation where a CCW'er would unholster his gun and fire warning shots.
    Warning shots may also put you in a bad situation after the fact. A good prosecutor could say that if you had time to fire warning shots then you had time to run away or something of that nature--whether its true or not.

  11. #41
    Ex Member Array HollowpointHank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith View Post
    From the Wabash Files:

    A while back an aquaintance of mine was walking to his girlfriend's house.

    A known street tough accosted him, pulling a knife and telling him that he was going to cut him.

    This aquaintance pulled a 1911 and aimed it at him, verbally warning him to back off while putting distance between him and the threat.

    The tough looked at it, stopped, and said, "That gun ain't loaded!" He then began advancing again.

    If this scenario happened to you, what would you do? I'd likely shoot, giving controlled pairs to COM until the threat was no longer present.

    What would be your solution?

    I'll fill you in on the resolution and aftermath after all who wish to participate, have.

    Josh <><

    OK, we've all had our say. Now tell us what happened or I will have to pull out my unloaded gun on you! :-)

  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    Warning shots may also put you in a bad situation after the fact. A good prosecutor could say that if you had time to fire warning shots then you had time to run away or something of that nature--whether its true or not.
    Well thankfully in my case, I literrally cannot physically run away from a threat. 3 pins and removed tendon in a knee will do that to you. I'm sure my physical therapists, doctor,and surgueon(sp) would have no problem attesting this.

    In that situation, my main focus would be on not getting distracted and etc.

    I've been taught not to show or pull unless you intent on firing,but that doesn't mean you have to. Clearly a comment weather ego-based, stupidity or ignorance based such as "it aint loaded" is coming from somebody who is mentally able to do some major damage to you/your family, and the knife allows for said person to be physically able to hurt/kill you. Terrible combination.

    What did end up happening in that situation?


    "To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    And now the rest of the story:

    After the attacker said, "That gun ain't loaded," my aquaintence said something to the effect of, "Yes, it is," racked the slide (it had been in condition 3), and put one into the air above the attacker's right shoulder (or into the ground to the side of the sidewalk; I got two different stories, the official one and his) .

    The attacker turned and ran.

    The police were called and my aquaintence was 'cuffed and stuffed, and taken to the station. The police chief got there (third shift) and began chewing the officers out. He asked, "(Aquaintence), you shot to scare him away, not to kill him, right?" Aquaintence agreed. The chief then asked his officers if they'd rather be working a homicide right now.

    Aquaintence was turned loose.

    While I'm not happy with the police chief's stance on warning shots nor his berrating of his officers for doing what they felt was right (and they did also catch the suspect, btw), it turned out well on that end. I'm just concerned what the chief would do if I had to defend myself - I believe in warning shots in very few circumstances, and this wouldn't have been one. I can say with confidence that I would have shot high COM.

    The civil side was different however. We don't have lawsuits in Wabash - not for wrongful death or anything of that sort, anyway. The family that the young tough belongs to is extremely clanish, with most generations overlapping - lots of uncles younger or same age as their nephews, for example. They're a gang with blood bonds in other words. Along with that clannish lifestyle comes the "protect our own with whatever violence is necessary" way of thinking.

    My aquaintence ended up with the whole clan after him with everything from guns to knives to pitchforks.

    He continued to carry and a friend of his was acting as a bodyguard - he carried more guns on him than he could realistically hope to use.

    Last I heard the whole situation had cooled off some, though it had taken about a year.

    Strange town.

    Josh <><

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    I think i'd prove to him that the gun was loaded first by firing a warning shot. Taking a life is bad, but beleive you me if the warning shot didn't do the trick i'd find out how well 9mm hollow points really work.
    Warning shot = bad...either you are shooting to stop a threat or it stays in your holster.

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    There would be a very loud noise...
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

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