Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!" - Page 4

Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!"

This is a discussion on Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by dunndw That gun ain't loaded...ranks right up there with: Hey..hold my beer and watch this usually the last words of someone who ...

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Thread: Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!"

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunndw View Post
    That gun ain't loaded...ranks right up there with:

    Hey..hold my beer and watch this

    usually the last words of someone who makes a BIG mistake
    Excellent!
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  2. #47
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    You can get yourself in more trouble with a warning shot than a clean SD shoot. I kind of look at a laser sight as taking the place of a warning shot. Just the sight of the red dot will give a thinking person reason to pause and reconsider what may be his last bad decision.

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
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    I would hold my ground and reply "Well that knife aint sharp". Wait for reply from BD and act accordinly.

    Joking of course. 3 or 4 to CM or until threat is stopped.
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
    Don't see a dicussion point here. Whether he thinks the gun is loaded or not is of no conesequence. Chances are I would have fired on drawing anyway, so the issue would not have come up.

    Main thing is, is he a threat? If yes then shoot. Or maybe I should take the time to rack out a round and show it to him while he sticks me with the knife, takes my gun and rapes my girlfriend?
    Yep.

    I am thinking the exact same thing.
    As he has a knife in hand he is already presented himself as being a _highly_ dangerous person. This is a no joke don't treat it mildly situation/scenario.

    Tap to the pelvic girdle or upper thigh/femur if drawing and shooting from the hip/low position and sapped for reaction time.
    Otherwise tap tap at CoM while retreating backward at an angle oblique to him, if at all possible (!), to gain distance from him if reaction time is great enough to allow for a full pull from the holster and an optimal one or two fisted draw & sight.

    Again though a person of this mindset who takes such an action in addition to the as stated statement of disregard that is someone who is very dangerous and should be treated as one would a pit viper.
    Stop it before it stops you.

    - Janq

    P.S. - Warning shots are fubar. Dude got off very lucky on both counts, with the BG first and then again with the cops.
    Carrying in condition 3 and all thats just nuts. He's lucky he even had time to load his sidearm muchless draw for it. The BG was obviously an amateur.
    Shots in the air to come down far and away elsewhere, shots at the ground (to glance and ricochet elsewhere), talking with cops with no attorney present...dude got off and away with luck. He should have bought a lotto ticket that night.
    Not nearly anyone muchless everyone can be so fortunate.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #50
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    For what it's worth, here are my two cents.

    Your friend fired a warning shot, and thank goodness, it worked. The perp ran away and was, in fact, apprehended. However, look at the trouble it caused. He was threatened by the perps family and put in even more danger, and eventually that perp will get out of jail (or prison) and may want some retribution.

    But, what if the evidence that the gun was loaded was to put three rounds in the perps chest?

    First, the perp would have no chance to come back and pay a return visit.

    Second, the family and friends would have known that this was a force best not reckoned with. If he was willing to shoot a kid for pulling a knife, what would he be willing to do if presented with a pitchfork?

    Of course it could also go the opposite way, but it's at least prudent to think that the better outcome (no matter how weird that may seem) could have been just to end things once and for all.

    And, I'm sorry, but if someone presents a knife at me, he won't have time to assess the status of my firearm. Knives are dangerous and very deadly and a moving man with a knife can be hard to stop, and even while dying, a wounded man with a knife can inflict a LOT of damage. When the knife comes out, as long as there's no other option, so do my bullets, at about 870 feet per second.

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Note to self:

    Do not take out pocket knife near Lima!


  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    Note to self:

    Do not take out pocket knife near Lima!

    As long as you don't threaten me with it you're okay! Heck, we can compare blades!

  8. #53
    Member Array Sonic Misfit's Avatar
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    IMHO, if the BG had the time to say three words, then the intended victim needs more training.

    It should have been more like, see knife, hear several loud BANGS. End of scene one.

    Sometimes I do wonder about so-called warning shots. I think that sometimes they are more of a panic response and then after the fact become warning shots. It is considered a good excuse for poor technique.

  9. #54
    Member Array FknRa's Avatar
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    3rnds COM ASAP and then a warning shot into the sidewalk :P

    kiddin of course but ya, no time to play hero, just get it over with.
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  10. #55
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    The warning shot. As I see it, your guns highest probability to go bang will occur with its first shot. (wheel guns not so much) With your auto the first shot only requires the firing pin to hit the primer, on the second shot look at how much more has to happen to fire. Don't waste your best shot!!!!

    SleepingZ

  11. #56
    Member Array snyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    The warning shot. As I see it, your guns highest probability to go bang will occur with its first shot. (wheel guns not so much) With your auto the first shot only requires the firing pin to hit the primer, on the second shot look at how much more has to happen to fire. Don't waste your best shot!!!!

    SleepingZ
    great point!

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array downrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    For what it's worth, here are my two cents.

    Your friend fired a warning shot, and thank goodness, it worked. The perp ran away and was, in fact, apprehended. However, look at the trouble it caused. He was threatened by the perps family and put in even more danger, and eventually that perp will get out of jail (or prison) and may want some retribution.

    But, what if the evidence that the gun was loaded was to put three rounds in the perps chest?

    First, the perp would have no chance to come back and pay a return visit.

    Second, the family and friends would have known that this was a force best not reckoned with. If he was willing to shoot a kid for pulling a knife, what would he be willing to do if presented with a pitchfork?

    Of course it could also go the opposite way, but it's at least prudent to think that the better outcome (no matter how weird that may seem) could have been just to end things once and for all.

    And, I'm sorry, but if someone presents a knife at me, he won't have time to assess the status of my firearm. Knives are dangerous and very deadly and a moving man with a knife can be hard to stop, and even while dying, a wounded man with a knife can inflict a LOT of damage. When the knife comes out, as long as there's no other option, so do my bullets, at about 870 feet per second.
    that's where, in the end, it comes down to "dead guys can sue" coming into play. (can't press charges either). with today's laws, somebody can get away with threatening Your life after the attempt to protect yourself. so, with the crazies ... take away their side of the story if they feel stupid enough to go to the dark side. ...my warning shot will be on target.
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  13. #58
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Man confronts me with a blade and demands my money or my life, he has sealed the deal.
    I draw, empty my weapon center mass until the threat stops, reload (5 shot revolver) cover the twitching body with my freshly loaded gun (in case there is any life left in the felon) and call 911.
    He isn't given time to ask the question or rush me.
    His "clan" thinks they are coming after me, I have more ammo and other weapons. If they are stupid enough to consider me a easy target, then they can met him in hell.
    This is not a object of a "******* contest" as one person stated. It is a matter of a disabled woman defending her life. This is why I have a weapon and a CCW.
    This has me thinking maybe I SHOULD get that automatic my hubby keeps pushing at me.
    If that guy needed psychological help...he wouldn't be getting it from me and after confronting me with a blade he wouldn't need it anyway.
    I am surprised that ANYONE thinks that a conversation or warning shot is needed.
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  14. #59
    Member Array sailormnop's Avatar
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    I wonder if there was wisdom in the old Samurai custom where if the sword is drawn, blood will be drawn also - somebody's going to die. In other words, don't draw unless you really have to; but if you are forced to defend yourself, show no mercy.

    Or is that antiquated and barbaric? Is it more important to give the BG a chance to use his brain? I think if he threatens my life, it doesn't matter what he know about my armament or when he finds out. If I draw, I shoot.

    Anyone disagree? I would like to have these issues thoroughly hashed out before I actually get in this situation.

    ********************
    I see my question has already been answered, and quite eloquently, by Lima and others. COM until the threat is stopped, immediately, it is. Thanks.
    Last edited by sailormnop; August 14th, 2007 at 08:06 AM. Reason: I see my question has been answered already, since I pulled this thread up last night and replied to it today.
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  15. #60
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    I believe that the doctrine that allows you to defend yourself from what you determine is a valid threat to your life precludes your way of thinking. You would be taken apart in court if you mentioned that you had predetermined that if you drew, you would fire.Self defense needs to be a flowing succession of events to be justifiable in court. The events can happen rapidly or slowly escalate, but certain things must be in place to justify action on your part. Probably the quicker and clearer a threat presents itself, the easier your defense will be.JMHO-Chuck.

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