Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!" - Page 6

Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!"

This is a discussion on Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I will survive to see my family again. If the threat is real, you need to protect yourself. However, I personally don't appreciate the head ...

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Thread: Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!"

  1. #76
    Member Array PAExplorer's Avatar
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    I Hope Everyone Reads This!

    I will survive to see my family again. If the threat is real, you need to protect yourself. However, I personally don't appreciate the head shot talk that seems to be popular here. The intent is not to kill the BG, it's to stop the attack. If the BG dies as a result of the force that was needed to stop the attack, that's one thing, but going for the kill is CRIMINAL if not necessary!!! We are not criminals, the opposite in fact. Please take your responsibility more seriously if you're not joking...and if you are joking about the head shot stuff, you should stop because there are a lot of people here who look for advice from fellow DC members and this is not the right advice! I'm ready to get flamed now.
    Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...that way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.


  2. #77
    Senior Member Array downrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAExplorer View Post
    I will survive to see my family again. If the threat is real, you need to protect yourself. However, I personally don't appreciate the head shot talk that seems to be popular here. The intent is not to kill the BG, it's to stop the attack. If the BG dies as a result of the force that was needed to stop the attack, that's one thing, but going for the kill is CRIMINAL if not necessary!!! We are not criminals, the opposite in fact. Please take your responsibility more seriously if you're not joking...and if you are joking about the head shot stuff, you should stop because there are a lot of people here who look for advice from fellow DC members and this is not the right advice! I'm ready to get flamed now.
    "dead guys can't press charges" ...that seems harsh doesn't it... or does it. think about all the good guys that are in jail right now from only defending themselves, the BG lives, presses charges, and wins. it's not worth it. he gave up his right to live by threatening my life.
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  3. #78
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAExplorer View Post
    I will survive to see my family again. If the threat is real, you need to protect yourself. However, I personally don't appreciate the head shot talk that seems to be popular here. The intent is not to kill the BG, it's to stop the attack. If the BG dies as a result of the force that was needed to stop the attack, that's one thing, but going for the kill is CRIMINAL if not necessary!!! We are not criminals, the opposite in fact. Please take your responsibility more seriously if you're not joking...and if you are joking about the head shot stuff, you should stop because there are a lot of people here who look for advice from fellow DC members and this is not the right advice! I'm ready to get flamed now.
    You are correct in that the intent IS to stop the attack. The most effective and efficient way to do that is to completely shut down the function of his central nervous system or to cause massive trauma to major internal organs (heart, lungs, etc.). This is why most instructors advocate some variation of the "Mozambique drill" (a.k.a. "failure to stop" drill) which consists of two (or more) rounds to the high center chest followed, if necessary (i.e. if the BG doesn't go down), by rounds to the head. There is nothing criminal about this.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  4. #79
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    Obviously, if the attacker does not stop, you need to do what you need to do. However, I think the dead guys don't press charges mentality is crazy. my 2 cents
    Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...that way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by downrange View Post
    "dead guys can't press charges" ...that seems harsh doesn't it... or does it. think about all the good guys that are in jail right now from only defending themselves, the BG lives, presses charges, and wins. it's not worth it. he gave up his right to live by threatening my life.
    I can respect the Black and White view, I just don't necessarily agree. Levittown, my neck of the woods.
    Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...that way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.

  6. #81
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    I know that CSI is just a tv show, but could our comments we post here be used against us after a shooting?
    What you think you know.... Can kill you!

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sourmash View Post
    I know that CSI is just a tv show, but could our comments we post here be used against us after a shooting?
    That's a good point, I didn't think of that. All the more reason not to joke around. CCW is a serious responsibility and shouldn't be taken as lightly as some do.
    Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...that way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.

  8. #83
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sourmash View Post
    I know that CSI is just a tv show, but could our comments we post here be used against us after a shooting?
    I'd bet on it.

    -john

  9. #84
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    missing something

    Help me out here. The OP said he heard the official version, and his friend's. I thought what was following that was the official/friend's version. Now, did the OP get alone with the friend, and ask seriously, "did you fire a warning shot, or did you miss?"
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  10. #85
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    I've read all the posts as of today (nine pages).

    First thing... the BG was right... it was not loaded (condition 3, why?). The only time I carried without a round in the chamber was the first day I got my handuns to practice presentation and re-holstering (and that was at home, in private).

    Second thing... I agree about the idea that if you have time to make a warning shot... then you probably had time to back away and leave (this is a reasonable doubt issue... maybe you did have time, maybe not -- but I would not want that kind of doubt in the mind of the lead cop who makes the decision to "book you").

    Third thing (and one that may effect others as well). I ALWAYS carry a Keltec P32 and I will expect that some BG's may not even notice this smallish pistol until it goes bang. My primary is a Glock 19... but a few times I've only carried this BUG and it's defintely not an "imposing" visual deterent.

    And last. This person got lucky with law enforcement. I will assume he "lawyered up" but you did not mention it. And I can understand why he would want a "bodyguard" with the "family" gang thing you described. I get the feeling that he may need a tactical pistol training class (maybe it's a refresher) since -- in spite of some minor mistakes -- he came out ahead but imagine if it was two (or more)family members instead of this one dumb one.
    “We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm” - George Orwell

  11. #86
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Ask him if he would like to talk about it after he s been bagged and tagged. Honey did i leave a clip in you purse.

  12. #87
    Senior Member Array downrange's Avatar
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    first off, let me say that the posts after my last were disagreeable but "professional" so we're going in the right direction in seeing all the points.

    second, all the worrying about the thoughts of "will something like my posts here incriminate me" is too deep for when a real life situation occurs and your adrenaline makes that kind of deep thought impossible ...(i mean no offense in that either.)

    i was fortunate enough that my years of "rough" time living in the city limits of Philly only resulted with a pistol whip mugging and a small lump on my head. it was small and a 60 dollar loss. not really a big deal and that was 7 years ago. also makes me grateful that i live in a smooth suburb like levittown now.

    ...but to think realistically and also that a perfect ending is going to come out of a "wounded" BG, his imprisonment ,and your commendation and safety... is that really worth taking the chance on your own life's outcome... or loved ones? i don't think i would ever entice or invite someone on over to the dark side so i don't think i should personally have to be put out as "corrections" as opposed to "threat stopping".
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  13. #88
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    You gotta put him down or he will kill you with his knife or your pistol.

  14. #89
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    ""So do you feel plucky punk, do ya. This here is a KelTec 380, one of the least powerful selfdefense handguns in the world, punk. With a good shot it might penetrate a few inches and give you heart burn for a week. So you you've got to ask yourself, do I feel plucky?""
    Old testament....Shooting to Live 1942
    http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/...ng_to_live.pdf
    Newer testament... Kill or Get Killed 1976/1987
    http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/...Get_Killed.pdf

  15. #90
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverkeeper View Post
    ""So do you feel plucky punk, do ya. This here is a KelTec 380, one of the least powerful selfdefense handguns in the world, punk. With a good shot it might penetrate a few inches and give you heart burn for a week. So you you've got to ask yourself, do I feel plucky?""
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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