Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!" - Page 7

Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!"

This is a discussion on Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; At the risk of sounding like a soothsayer, I don't see a long life for MikeP1230 with an attitide like this....

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Thread: Scenario: "That Gun Ain't Loaded!"

  1. #91
    New Member Array horseman78164's Avatar
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    At the risk of sounding like a soothsayer, I don't see a long life for MikeP1230 with an attitide like this.


  2. #92
    Senior Member Array downrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikep1230 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with many of the suggestions posted here. A lot of them are either just trying to escalate the ******* contest, or trying to get too fancy.

    In most cases, the guy who comes up to you on the street and demands your money is greedy and stupid... but not completely brain-dead. That's why pulling your gun (compared to his knife) usually ends the conflict immediately. The problem is with the guys who are actualy looking for an ego boost: they don't want your money so much as they want to prove that they can control other people (remember the bully in 2nd grade?). That's the type that will see your weapon as a personal challenge, and will respond instinctively with a comment aimed at knocking you down a notch: "it's not loaded." The problem here is their actions are based on ego, and not the brain: that's why you will *never* win this type of fight. Trying to prove that you're stronger than they are ("my gun *is* loaded, and my [blank] *is* bigger") just continues to increase the stakes until they run out of words and have no choice but to physically attack. And while the odds of surviving are in your favor, I think we're all aware of the consequences of such a victory.

    The other problem is much easier to explain. Every time you take your eyes off the threat, you give them an opening. Every second you spend thinking about ways to prove that your weapon is loaded, targeting the poor shrub, or (laugh) ejecting a round, is another second closer to you that they can get.

    Deflect the comment or, better yet, just ignore it. Continue responding to the threat the way you would if they hadn't said anything.
    i really think you should re-read what you posted and then the following posts afterwards, ...back up and rethink the situation. i'm not "hating" or getting into a "******* contest" (in fact most here never really do), but your defining the word naive and it's only going to hurt you.
    What's this button do?

  3. #93
    Member Array JohnnyRebel's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by buckrod73 View Post
    You gotta put him down or he will kill you with his knife or your pistol.
    agreed!
    Cheers,

    Johnny Rebel


    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

  4. #94
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    Inspite of my Dirty Harry rip off above.

    If perp is inside approx 25 ft (he's currently advancing and threatened both verbally and with a weapon) --> raise to to 2 handed extended point-shoot position, both eyes open, 2 quick rounds center mass and quickly more as needed till doofus dude stops.

    Concurrent loud verbal warning if your brain can work that way at the time.
    Old testament....Shooting to Live 1942
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    Newer testament... Kill or Get Killed 1976/1987
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  5. #95
    Member Array *SA-XD4ME*'s Avatar
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    what if the person is a master knife thrower? you'd be SOL!

  6. #96
    Member Array sevesteen's Avatar
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    A lot would depend on which gun I'm carrying. If it's the Airweight, I don't have enough ammo to waste on warnings--If his eyes are good enough to look into the cylinder from beyond Tuller distances, he's welcome to check visually.

    If it was the XD and I had both ammo and distance to "waste", it would depend on the exact circumstances. If he isn't too close, I'd be willing to take some extra risk to avoid having to shoot someone. Unless there was a known good backstop in just the right place, racking the slide is more likely than a warning shot to "prove" it is loaded.

  7. #97
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    Josh... Can we have the what happened now
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

  8. #98
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    See post #43.

    -john

  9. #99
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I guess I would have to prove him wrong.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    For what it's worth, here are my two cents.

    Your friend fired a warning shot, and thank goodness, it worked. The perp ran away and was, in fact, apprehended. However, look at the trouble it caused. He was threatened by the perps family and put in even more danger, and eventually that perp will get out of jail (or prison) and may want some retribution.

    But, what if the evidence that the gun was loaded was to put three rounds in the perps chest?

    First, the perp would have no chance to come back and pay a return visit.

    Second, the family and friends would have known that this was a force best not reckoned with. If he was willing to shoot a kid for pulling a knife, what would he be willing to do if presented with a pitchfork?

    Of course it could also go the opposite way, but it's at least prudent to think that the better outcome (no matter how weird that may seem) could have been just to end things once and for all.

    And, I'm sorry, but if someone presents a knife at me, he won't have time to assess the status of my firearm. Knives are dangerous and very deadly and a moving man with a knife can be hard to stop, and even while dying, a wounded man with a knife can inflict a LOT of damage. When the knife comes out, as long as there's no other option, so do my bullets, at about 870 feet per second.
    +1 BANG=HOLE IN FACE
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  11. #101
    Member Array mikep1230's Avatar
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    woah... obviously I'm not *that* frequent of a reader here, so I hadn't yet seen the responses to my post. I'm curious about (and again, disagree with) some of the responses though.


    Quote Originally Posted by horseman78164 View Post
    At the risk of sounding like a soothsayer, I don't see a long life for MikeP1230 with an attitide like this.
    This is a good one to kick things off with. If you read it, you'll know that my post can be summed up to: "don't try to argue with him, it'll get you nowhere; don't try to prove him wrong, you're creating more of a risk than benefit; just deal with the threat." Which part are you thinking puts me at additional risk?


    Quote Originally Posted by downrange View Post
    i really think you should re-read what you posted and then the following posts afterwards, ...back up and rethink the situation. i'm not "hating" or getting into a "******* contest" (in fact most here never really do), but your defining the word naive and it's only going to hurt you.
    Same thing: I'm unclear which part of my statement you're taking as naive or likely to get me hurt.


    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoTex View Post
    How do you have any idea what is going through the BG's head or what his motivation(s) is/are? Simple answer: you don't. There is a threat, do whatever it takes to end it.
    Actually, you do have some idea of what's going through his head. That's what all the psychologists visiting criminals in jail are up to. Read some of the papers they write; understanding the other guy may help you someday.

    And, to repeat myself yet again, my primary point was *just deal with the threat*. The rest of my post was just explaining why it's a bad idea to complicate things.


    PS:
    Quote Originally Posted by downrange View Post
    exactly, warning shots are for military and police.
    I noticed others said the same thing I already had: warning shots aren't a good idea: they distract you, create legal concerns, add a risk for complications, and don't gain you much. The reason I'm bringing it up again is I wanted to throw in a slight clarification: military personnel are trained *not* to fire warning shots. I'd imagine the same of police, but I don't speak from experience in that case.

  12. #102
    Member Array Dwight55's Avatar
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    Reading most of 11 pages helps me realize that:

    I'm not Teddy Kennedy, . . . so I can't invite him for a ride in my car back to Chappaquiddick, . . . so we can discuss the merits of his perceived need to rob when there are so many good public programs that will pay him to learn to be a better citizen.

    I'm not Sarah Brady, . . . so I cannot form another public service organization aimed at preventing mass murders by deranged and psychotic knife weilders.

    I'm not Nancy Pelozi, . . . so there is no political gain to be made by quickly calling a press conference to deride the evils of being cut up with a knife.

    I'm also neither Rev. Jesse Jackson nor Al Sharpton, . . . so I can't race bait this affront.

    No, . . . I'm just a 62 year old, geezer, VietNam vet, . . . with a bum knee, some ticker problems, a 1911 (carrying a total of 25 rounds of 230 grain ball), . . . and a distinct aversion to scumballs offering to cut me for free. While the surgeons always charge exorbitant fees, . . . but they gimme goofy juice first so it don't hurt.

    Nahh, . . . this dude's visual warning is my right hand reaching, . . . and his auditory warning is the safety going off. Ask him later, . . . he will be qualified to answer the age old question: "Do you really hear the sound of the round that takes you out?" Course, . . . if he doesn't fall fast enough, . . . he may hear my slide lock and the sound of reloading while he is on the ground bleeding out.

    May God bless,
    Dwight
    If you can breathe, . . . thank God.
    If you can read, . . . than a teacher.
    If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a veteran.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight55 View Post
    Nahh, . . . this dude's visual warning is my right hand reaching, . . . and his auditory warning is the safety going off. Ask him later, . . . he will be qualified to answer the age old question: "Do you really hear the sound of the round that takes you out?" Course, . . . if he doesn't fall fast enough, . . . he may hear my slide lock and the sound of reloading while he is on the ground bleeding out...
    Dwight
    From another 'elder'...I might verbally add "Get the (insert your own superlative here) back!" to the aforementioned (safety click sound) scenario...but I'm with you! For these old bones, what doesn't hurt, doesn't work, and I'm not in a position to be wrestling around on the ground any more.
    Leave me alone, I'll apologize for something not my fault if I have to...but continue the assault and I will act quickly and violently.

    OMO...yours may vary...
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  14. #104
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    mike1230,
    Here is what caught my eye.

    "I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with many of the suggestions posted here. A lot of them are either just trying to escalate the ******* contest, or trying to get too fancy.

    In most cases, the guy who comes up to you on the street and demands your money is greedy and stupid... but not completely brain-dead. That's why pulling your gun (compared to his knife) usually ends the conflict immediately. The problem is with the guys who are actualy looking for an ego boost: they don't want your money so much as they want to prove that they can control other people (remember the bully in 2nd grade?). That's the type that will see your weapon as a personal challenge, and will respond instinctively with a comment aimed at knocking you down a notch: "it's not loaded." The problem here is their actions are based on ego, and not the brain: that's why you will *never* win this type of fight. Trying to prove that you're stronger than they are ("my gun *is* loaded, and my [blank] *is* bigger") just continues to increase the stakes until they run out of words and have no choice but to physically attack. And while the odds of surviving are in your favor, I think we're all aware of the consequences of such a victory.

    Deflect the comment or, better yet, just ignore it. Continue responding to the threat the way you would if they hadn't said anything."

    It seems you want to mentally put them on a couch and find out what makes them "tick". Who cares? You are faced with a threatening thug with a blade...he either turns away and runs or gets shot.
    I have read many of the books on criminal mind....for years. One thing I have learned is that you can't count on what a thug will do.
    I would never turn my back on a threat like that and if anyone did...they would be stupid. No warning shot.....warning shots do come down if shot in the air and can bounce if shot in concret. No conversation....waste of time. I would shoot him....center mass. It is not a ******* contest with me...it is life or death....his or mine.
    As a woman who has limited mobility....I know in court disparagy of force would be my shield. So it seems what most people disagree with you about is the "study in psychology" you seem to be promoting.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  15. #105
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51
    You are faced with a threatening thug with a blade...he either turns away and runs or gets shot.
    Seems to me that is exactly what mike1230 said. He was just a bit more verbose, which seems to me to have confused a lot of people.

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