November 26th, 2007 09:39 PM
I agree. I'm small and have health issues. Even with some martial arts training I took several years ago, I likely could not fight off two men without drawing a weapon. I would draw and not hesitate to fire in that situation, but only in self defense and defense of the ladies. I wouldn't agressively antagonize the two men.
Originally Posted by me
November 26th, 2007 10:19 PM
+1 Mess with their OODA loop by taking the offensive at that point.
Originally Posted by vernonator
November 26th, 2007 10:24 PM
I HAD this situation happen to me. I was at Springfield mall in Northern Virginia with my girlfriend and sister. This was before I started carrying btw (key information). It was actually my 20th birthday. Anyway, we were walking along minding our own business--I was walking with my gf a little ahead of my little sister who was walking behind us.
Then I hear my sister say my name in a really scared voice and grab my arm and sorta get in front of me while looking back at something thats obviously terrifying her. She said "kavity, make him stop. Get him!" I didn't know what was going on but I turn around and see a huge 350lb thugged out black guy and his friend. I turn back to my sister and ask what happened and she told me they were making inappropriate/unwarranted/unwanted passes at her.
We keep walking (we are heading toward an escalator to go upstairs anyway) and I hear a few of the remarks. Well, I REALLLY didn't want to get into any sort of confrontation with these worthless lowlifes but I have my limits (which are a little different from now that I carry). I decided in a split second that my best defense was a good offense--to get as loud and scary as possible to shock these guys into submission.
I am not a small guy 5'11" 205 (built at the time..not so much anymore :( ) but I am also not a boxer or wanting to mix it up with a 6ft + 350lb+ thug and his friend. So, I figured if I can be as loud, angry, and scary as possible I might be able to make them back off. So I let em have it. "Shut your <insert choice words here> mouths or I will shut them for you, ect"
The small one looked visibly scared of me and the big one looked shaken by my response...he looked around and when he saw an entire mall of people staring at us [at me yelling at him like the worthless %$#@ that he was] he got "tough" again and started following me to the escalator spouting off more remarks about my sister. I had about had it at that point and wanted to throw down, size be damned, but I have my GF and sister to worry about--what would happen to them if I got beat up?
I told my gf to take my sister upstairs and call security/the cops. At this point we were on the escalator going up, and the guy was still walking towards us. This is wehre I broke off from my sister/gf and let them put distance between situation. I walked down the escalator so that I would stay in the same place continuing to verbally warn the thug to stay back.
Well he chickened out and left...THANK GOD (that would have probably hurt). The only defense I had was an insanely hot cup of coffee we had just purchased which I had determined was going in his face should he get within distance.
He skadaddled before the "security" (a 130lb kid with a flashlight and walkie talkie) showed up.
Flash forward to the present...now that I carry and I question what I would have done in a situation like that. I KNOW I wouldn't have verbally challenged him the way I did, but some form of verbal warning needed to have been made. I don't know how I would word it though. "Shut your mouth!" seems a little "aggressive" and "Please be quiet sir" seems to sheepish. He was making remarks that still make my blood boil as I type this, but I am not sure 2 in the chest 1 in the head is necessary (err legal). I just know that I needed to tell him to stop saying what he was saying and to stay back. If he continued to press us, I may expose my rig..depending on the situation..and grip the handle of it.
I didn't see a visible weapon but 2 v 1 (and one of them MUCH larger than me) is quite the disparity of force. I would yell for them to "Stop, stay back!" and have my sister/gf run to get help and/or call 911. If they continued or made any more aggressive actions I would draw and go from there.
November 27th, 2007 08:24 PM
Very good point, and very true! This is why as soon as your situational awareness alerts you, your sixth sense or whatever gets your hackles up, while they are still outside the 21 ft distance, you start to do things that gets them to tip their hand.
Originally Posted by TravisABQ
If you feel someone or some group of "nogoodnicks" are intent on you or your party but they are still at a distance, it is helpful to suddenly change directions to move out of their line of travel. If they continue to match your movements as they close the distance, I feel comfortable you can now assume you are being targeted.
Don't let them flank you! Stop and engage before they have a chance to get on different sides of you. Move towards a wall or side of building and get your family or companions between the wall and you.
At that point you can turn to them and tell them they are making you nervous and to please leave you alone. Don't ask what they want or what you can do for them as that just encourages more dialog.
You may at that point place your hand on your weapon to let them know you are armed. Especially if you are dealing with more than one individual. Of course at this point, any one of your traveling companions should be on a cell phone calling police.
If they continue to advance, draw your weapon!
If they produce a weapon of their own, draw and fire!
If they continue to give lip service but neither advance or they start to withdraw, keep your gun in hand until the threat is over.
Make report to police in a safe location and ask for the police to escort you and your family to your car after you conclude your business with them incase the BG's have reconnoitered and are laying in wait to ambush you again once the police leave.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
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