What would you do if someone (unarmed) wanted to/started to fight you...

[kavity]

...and they were smaller than you by 40-50lbs while you were carrying?


I had the story typed out but its too embarrassing to post here because its INCREDIBLY juvenile and I am embarrassed that I was even in a situation like that to begin with (I shouldn't have been and I know better). Live and learn I guess.

Well lets just say someone wants to fight you or does something physical that would have normally provoked a fight.. What are your options?

I know that if I am carrying its my job to avoid all such situations to begin with but what if you can't and someone physically assaults you (ie makes physical contact in an aggressive manner), you know you are bigger/stronger, and you know they are unarmed?

The right to defend yourself still exists even though you are carrying but I don't know that I would act the same or fight the same way if I knew I was carrying--for fear of my gun coming out of its holster/having the other person grab your gun/ect. Too many bad things could happen in that situation.



(In my case I was not carrying at the time and I kept my cool to the best of my ability and handled the situation rather well I guess. I knocked said person to the ground and walked away immediately to report the incident to my superior. Upper management is now aware of the situation and measures are being taken against this other employee.)

But what if you find yourself in a situation where someone smaller and unarmed attacks you? [while you are carrying] What would you do?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Greg in VA]

If they physically attack me, then I will fight back enough to stop the attack. If no hand is laid on me, then I'll do my best to walk away.

[kavity]

Thats what I did and fortunately the "attacker" had enough when I threw him down. I think he thought I was just going to sit there and take it.

What if you get into a tussle and end up rolling around on the floor fighting? I don't know if my gun would stay put or if it would come loose or if it could be grabbed.

This situation made me realize that I should probably look into some sort of judo class or something.

[rocky]

Attempt to avoid physical fight, take all said verbal abuse , fight if necessary.

[Maverickx50]

I was born with only one hand. So every time I get into a situation like that I start out by saying. "take your pick, would you rather be known as a person that beats up criples or a person that was beat up by a criple? That usualy stops them in their tracks. In any case you cannot get into a fight while carrying a gun. Jus cannot do it. You have to run or at least give it to someone else to hold or what ever. But in no way should you consider fighting while carrying. On the other hand if your attacked, in fear of your life or sever injury, then be glad you are carrying.

Just my humble opinion

[Bob The Great]

we have to be thick-skinned. If I'm attacked in such a way that I am not in fear of my life (by someone obviously unarmed, unskilled, and much smaller than me, for example), I will not (and legally cannot) respond with lethal force. I'll do whatever I can to make distance and break off the encounter. If that happens to be a quick hook, so be it.

That said, I'm a huge fan of not putting myself where such situations can happen in the first place. This is why I don't go to house-parties anymore or places that I know will be full of reckless and probably inhibition-lowered people.

[Gun Loving Liveral]

There is no way to provoke me into a physical fight unless I want to be provoked. If a person is literally physically attacking me, punching and kicking, and will not stop while I cover myself as best I can I would use my weapon. Just because a person is smaller does not mean they cannot do great harm or even kill.I am over 50 and have two heart stints. I do not know if repeated blows to the chest would dislodge the stints or not and I am not going to find out. That being said, I would do everything to avoid a physical fight, including defusing the argument, backing down or walking away. I have not been in a fight since high school (sophmore year, I think) so my record shows I am good at avoiding and defusing potential fights. Use of the weapon would be the ultimate last resort, and only if I thought I was in real danger. But among the reasons I carry is to make sure if I ever HAVE to defend myself the fight WON'T be equal.
Before anyone tells me how I will be in prison, not my use of the phrases 'last resort', 'real danger', and 'have to defend'.

[gmitch40]

Pepper spray and some basic h2h skills can help avoid having to ever draw your gun. Additionally, everyone should receive training in weapon retention.

Ultimately, that skinny little guy might be strung out on something that no amount of fighting is going to cure and may even take a surprising amount of lead to stop the threat.

My .02.

[Passa Fist]

Walk away. If I can't walk away, then I run away. If for some unfortunate reason I can not get away at all...I haul off and knock the $#!t out of them...If they hit me first. (Mind you you're still opening yourself up to an AGGRAVATED ASSAULT charge.)

[Dakotaranger]

walk away. I have nothing to prove

[Bark'n]

Kavity

If you go to the Reference & "How To" section I made a post titled:

Should I Shoot Someone if They Are Unarmed?

It might give you some insight on that question.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=30503

If you were to purchase the 2 videos I mention in the post, I am sure all the questions you are asking here and much more will not only be answered to your satisfaction, but also with great dramatic effect and actual forensic dissection of real cases. Nothing like actual case studies to drive the points home. Over 4 hours of literally the best instruction and expert advice for under $70. Or buy one for $34.95 and see if it lives up to everything I say. (If you don't like it, PM me and maybe we can work something out.)

This is information you can literally stake your life on and can keep you out of prison!

[kavity]

I wasn't really asking if I should shoot the person. In this situation it is completely obvious that a gun shouldn't be involved at all.

edit: I just read your post and I agree with what was posted...except that I am not going to let someone whale on me. Sorry, thats just not me and I really don't think that anyone should have to take a beating just because they are carrying a firearm. I guess alot of you would just curl up in a ball and take it.


For those of you that said you would avoid the situation completely...let me put my situation in perspective. I was walking down a hallway at work and my coworker was walking the other direction. As we crossed paths he more or less punched me in the face and blocked my way. It was unprovoked and completely unexpected (especially from someone who is suppose to have some level of maturity and professionalism). Even if I wanted to "run away" I couldn't have.

But like I mentioned earlier, I may invest in some form of martial arts training to learn how to quickly and safely "take down" someone in a situation like this so that I can get away and avoid escalating the situation. IMO its better than the fetal position technique some of you are recommending.

[Bark'n]

Kavity,

Basically, if avoidance and verbal deescalation techniques fail to work and you are unable to have a chance to call 911, you either turn to run away or fight the best you can.

One thing the Ayoob video explains quite well, is that if you are in an unarmed fight and they are getting the best of you, what started out as no disparity of force, could actually become a disparity of force which would allow you at that point to employ deadly force.

But you really need to understand all the complexities of what disparity of force means and how it may not apply one minute, but then as situations change, can come into play.

I will give you an example:

Say a guy punches you in the face and you are doing the best you can to defend yourself. While you are one on one, or possibly even two on one but they are unarmed and you are on your feet, able to roll with the punches and absorb the blows with your body... deadly force at that point probably isn't justified.

Now say they knock you down on the ground, and instead of grabbing your wallet and leaving, they start kicking you and stomping you with their boots.

Now you are on the ground, against a hard surface and you are no longer able to "roll with the punches" and your body is unable to absorb the blows as it could when you were upright and now you are unable to escape.

You are now being stomped with what is considered a "shod foot" and in that case, they are very capable of inflicting crippling or killing blows to you. They can rupture your spleen or liver, rupture your bladder or fracture your skull or deliver any number of other "permanent" injuries, and more than likely will.

Now it is definitely a deadly situation and at that point there is a clear "disparity of force" and you would more than likely be justified in pulling your gun and shooting them at that point. But you may not have been justified if you were still standing and physically able to absorb some of the blows they deliver or even escape. (But even then it's still shaky ground and it all depends on the "mood of the courts" and the prosecutor in your jurisdiction as to whether they will file against you). But at least you have some information and knowledge about disparity of force you can use at trial to defend your actions with.

I hope you can see where I'm getting at here. In any case, thinking you won't learn something from one of those videos, I feel is pretty short sighted (not you specifically but anyone). I run into people constantly who'll spend $40 in ammo to go punch holes in paper for an afternoon but won't cut loose with $40 to purchase some education that can keep them off of death row or out of prison. I am certainly not a "shill" for Ayoob, he does fine without my endorsements. I have just been reading and studying what he has provided for the last 30 years and know what he has to offer.

I constantly see the same questions over and over again in these forums and if people would just invest a few dollars of their money for some quality information and instruction they would receive invaluable information that would keep them from making wrong decisions. The man can back up everything he says with case law, actual practice and real court room experience getting real people off of the hot seat and keeping them out of prison.

Again, just my 2 cents... I feel confident I can take care of my family and myself no problem. I'm a certified law enforcement defense tactics trainer, certified instructor in OC spray, Ground Fighting tactics and have been certified in verbal judo and am an active member of a swat team. While I don't shoot competitively, I'm an above average shot and train and study tactics and have for close to 30 years. My gun isn't my only tool in my defensive tool box.

I'm not saying my advice is right or that I know everything there is to know, (far from it), but I have time and grade in on what I do and it's worked for me. I've been in deadly situations and deadly encounters where people have died without the luxury of having a firearm and I've never had to shoot anyone and hopefully never will. I've even been working on a patient when someone reached over me and shot them 4 additional times. (I've got permanent hearing loss and permanent powder marks on my face as a result and I still get headaches and ringing in my ears 25 years later)

I feel I am alive today because of knowledge, street smarts and tactics and not because I have a gun.

[kavity]

Oh don't get me wrong I am ordering the dvd.

[ccw9mm]

I won't allow an attack. I cannot possibly know the attacker does not have a man-made weapon. Prudence demands one assume that an attacker has separate weapons beyond his hands and demented aggression. As a somewhat debilitated person with damaged hip/leg, I'm not running anywhere; and that simple fact means the disparity of force against even a single younger, stronger, aggressive attacker is an element that cannot be ignored.

Have some H2H skills from a bygone era, but little realistic ability given the hip/leg thang) in that area. The day of schoolyard brawls is long past, when one could expect merely a bloody lip and wounded pride. A street attack by a full-grown and aggressive adult, however, can rapidly turn deadly. As for pepper spray, that's a fine idea. However, it's not the panacea some think. Speak with any LEO you trust and you'll find that it may well not work as planned exactly when you need it to.

Fortunately, my state is not barbaric enough to require I meekly submit to attack before responding. I may respond with the degree of force required to stop the violence against me, instead of merely engaging in a deadly tit-for-tat up the "use of force" ladder. The thing is, with the disability, the switch from merely being clopped upside the head and being killed by a kick on the ground can be an instant. Videos aren't going to change the simple reality of the risks, as it can turn in a moment and go beyond the point where any resistance is possible ... particularly if being attacked by two or more aggressive individuals. Have read the Ayoob material, and others. Am fully aware of the major legal standards involved.

I won't start a fight, neither provoking nor escalating. I will, if possible, walk away. If that's unavailable, I hope to have a wall or corner or other surface to my back and be able to defend as needed. However, if attacked I will end it, using whatever degree of force the attacker requires to immediately halt the attack.