Got in a fight while carrying

This is a discussion on Got in a fight while carrying within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Was short and sweet, but I was totally unprepared for the snap decision I'd have to make. I was approached by a guy I knew ...

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Thread: Got in a fight while carrying

  1. #1
    Member Array PAExplorer's Avatar
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    Got in a fight while carrying

    Was short and sweet, but I was totally unprepared for the snap decision I'd have to make. I was approached by a guy I knew (and knew he didn't like me for something that happend years ago) I thought things had cooled down, but when took a swing at me, I realized that they haddn't (in his mind at least). Here's how it went down... I saw this guy (haddn't seen him in 8 or so years) outside a Pep Boys. He said "Hey Man" and started to walk toward me. Recognizing him, I said "dude, long time no see" and no ssoner did he get about 6 feet from me, he lunged out and took a big swing. I leaned back, he missed and re-cocked his right arm for another swing as he cursed at me. I backed up a bit and he lunged again and took a swing. This time I leaned back again as to avoid his punch and as the right side of his body turned with the momentum from the follow through, I jumped at him and delivered a devistating knee to his ribs. I have no fight training at all, but I watch a lot of UFC! Anyway, he went down immediately for about 30 seconds rolling in pain. I went back into the store and called the police. Now that this is all over I start thinking about how very bad this could have gone had he beaten me up or my gun became exposed. What do you do in a situation where your own gun could be taken or come out during a fight that doesn't call for deadly force at the time it begins? I mean, you can't just pull out your gun to avoid a fist fight, right? Comments...
    Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...that way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.

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  3. #2
    Member Array JohnnyRebel's Avatar
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    Lightbulb well...

    Is it safe to say that if you didnt know him or were'nt old friends you probably wouldnt have hesitated to pull out your gun and use it?

    If this guy was a total stranger attacking you, I'd say you have full rights to defend yourself, period.
    Cheers,

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    I personally don't have all the details worked out, regarding what I would do. Congratulations on laying this guy out after he had the chance to sucker punch you and you got away from it!

    Was there any surveillance video of the front of the store, that you can have the police get hold of, to prove that you were swung on unprovoked? I would try to get that pronto, if it exists.

    There is a huge unknown area there, with regard to a guy who approaches with "only" fists, because of the disparity of force between his unarmedness and your gun. If you were to drop back, draw, and possibly fire, almost everyone would look at you like you were the bad guy, who overreacted, and who should've just allowed himself to take a few lumps or something. Never mind the fact that if you did so, your gun could tumble out or get found in a struggle and used against you by this nutjob. So it's a difficult situation to be in.

    Let's not forget that PEOPLE HAVE DIED FROM A SINGLE PUNCH to the head, and it's happened a number of times that I can recall just in my area alone. (One guy fell backward from the punch, cracked his head on the ground, went into a coma and then died.) So the argument can be made that you are justified in responding to bare-handed violence using your gun because bare-handed violence can indeed be deadly. Aren't hands and feet the "weapons" used in a huge proportion of homicides annually? One is not "safe" just because he's "only" using his fists. My feeling is that if someone brings you violence unprovoked, you should be justified in treating it as violence that could be intended to end your life, because you will have no way of knowing. But unfortunately, the law seems pretty backward in this regard.

  5. #4
    Member Array PAExplorer's Avatar
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    But I guess my question is. If someone puts up their dukes and you can't get away, do you just partake in a good old fashion fist fight? And if so, how do you protect your weapon? I carry a hamered revo... it's possible that a rumble could lead to the hamer being hit hard enough for a discharge. I can't see how a fist fight challange would be grounds for a draw. For example, what do you do if the "macho man" takes off his shirt and challenges you. You can see that they don't have a weapon out and you can't turn and run. What then?
    Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...that way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.

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    Member Array Raider39a's Avatar
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    I would do what I would normally do in this situation. walk away but preferably run as fast as I can away from this area. I will avoid any physical altercation and swallow my pride then leave. I will try any means to deescalate the situation. I don't want to be put in a situation where my assailant can disarm me and use the weapon against me. however, if violence is unavoidable, then it is on. hand to hand. if i fear for my life, the pistol gets drawn and commands to cease and leave start. if he is unarmed, he gets pepper sprayed first. a call to the police is also merited.

    it sounds that you had no choice and essentially got ambushed. good knee strike, you have been watching to much vanderlei silva, ha? good on ya, mate.
    "embrace the suck" - our warriors in the sandbox... it implies that do the best you can in impossible conditions.
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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider39a View Post
    I would do what I would normally do in this situation. walk away but preferably run as fast as I can away from this area. I will avoid any physical altercation and swallow my pride then leave. I will try any means to deescalate the situation. I don't want to be put in a situation where my assailant can disarm me and use the weapon against me. however, if violence is unavoidable, then it is on. hand to hand. if i fear for my life, the pistol gets drawn and commands to cease and leave start. if he is unarmed, he gets pepper sprayed first. a call to the police is also merited.

    it sounds that you had no choice and essentially got ambushed. good knee strike, you have been watching to much vanderlei silva, ha? good on ya, mate.

    I agree 90%. I would pepper spray before we got to trading punches. Of course someone is going to come along any minute now and say how inneffective sprays are and that you should just shoot him until slide lock, then pour gasoline on him and light him up... This is the internet though.

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    Ex Member Array fludy12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAExplorer View Post
    And if so, how do you protect your weapon? I carry a hamered revo... it's possible that a rumble could lead to the hamer being hit hard enough for a discharge.

    Um, if you're carrying a revolver "hammer down" on a live round and it does NOT have a transfer bar type safety, then you need to learn a little more about using a carrying your weapon.

    And, "hammer" has two M's...

  9. #8
    Member Array Dwight55's Avatar
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    There are those who can go hand to hand, . . . some have to go cane to cane or walker to walker.

    Raider has the right idea if a guy has the youth, . . . stamina, . . . speed to do all that. But considering my health and all, . . . I'll probably go straight from "fear for my life" to un-holstering, acquiring sight picture, flicking off safety, engaging trigger, . . . and if the dude is fast enough to start running before my finger can put 4.6 #'s of pressure on a 4.5 trigger, . . . he may live to curse me tomorrow. Otherwise, . . . he may not.

    No, . . . I'm not looking for a fight, . . . and if shuffle walking away from one will avoid it, . . . I'll do that. I'll apologize for a slight the other guy perceives. But I ain't taking a beating just so some punk can rob me of my weapon and shoot me with it, . . .

    Springmom on some of the other forums sums it up in her sig line: I will not be a victim.

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    Dwight
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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    I agree 90%. I would pepper spray before we got to trading punches. Of course someone is going to come along any minute now and say how inneffective sprays are and that you should just shoot him until slide lock, then pour gasoline on him and light him up... This is the internet though.
    +1
    OC or pepper spray gives you options. If you spray someone and they keep comming you have shown the DA that you tried not to kill them. http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/sprays.htm
    CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!

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    That would be my fear. During the fight the guy gets my gun. Once the fight starts and if he gets me on the ground and my shirt goes up, he see's me gun, then what? Scarry situation.
    One punch can kill a man and has many times. I'm not a fighter. I'd run or do whatever I could to get away. If I'm forced to draw, atleast I did everything I could to avoid the situation.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fludy12 View Post
    Um, if you're carrying a revolver "hammer down" on a live round and it does NOT have a transfer bar type safety, then you need to learn a little more about using a carrying your weapon.

    And, "hammer" has two M's...

    Thanks for the spelling lesson. It does have a safety that keeps the hammer off of the pin when uncocked, but I wouldn't want to take any chances.
    Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...that way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.

  13. #12
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    OC spray from me first...that's just for repeated threats (remember, I'm already apologizing, backing up, etc....)...if the threat continues moving forward, or I am touched? Well, let's just say, that I refuse to be a victim! This short, fat, bald, 60 year old will come to life, and quickly!
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    Member Array 2ndfan's Avatar
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    I think I would try heading back into the store, while being prepared to pepper spray him. I would do whatever I could to avoid a physical confrontation.

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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    retsupt99 brings to mind a good point. He will get away with more than I will, and a small woman may get away with even more. A 6'4", 250lb, relatively healthy man in his late 30's will have a harder time convincing a DA ,and heaven forbid a jury, that he was in fear of his life.
    CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!

    FOUR BOXES KEEP US FREE: [1] SOAP [2] BALLOT [3] JURY [4] AMMO!

  16. #15
    Member Array Plan B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohhnyRebel View Post
    Is it safe to say that if you didnt know him or were'nt old friends you probably wouldnt have hesitated to pull out your gun and use it?

    If this guy was a total stranger attacking you, I'd say you have full rights to defend yourself, period.
    I gotta tell you that just a guy wanting to fight is NOT going to make me want to escalate to a gunfight. There is no immediate GRAVE threat. Some may disagree, but the degree of danger has to come into play here - some guy wanting to throw knuckles does not do it.

    I should add that not all folks are able to defend themselves hand-to-hand. Acknowledged. Bail. Just walk away. If this guy is Joe-billy-bad-ass and really wants to find out ... well, I guess we'll find out. Either way, I'm going home that night. Choosing to escalate to a firearms (or any lethal type of force) - that has GOT to be last-ditch, no-other-choice, type of decision that you're completely prepared to explain and that you would expect other "reasonable" people to understand and agree with.

    cw
    Last edited by Plan B; August 24th, 2007 at 10:08 PM. Reason: detail

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