Comments? I Just Had To Post This
This is a discussion on Comments? I Just Had To Post This within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It was copied off Packing.org & pasted over on GLOCKTALK & Now I borrowed it & posted it over here....BECAUSE I Like This Place Better ...
June 2nd, 2005 04:27 PM
Comments? I Just Had To Post This
It was copied off Packing.org & pasted over on GLOCKTALK & Now I borrowed it & posted it over here....BECAUSE I Like This Place Better Than Any Other Spot On The Web
I (of Course) am not including the original posters name.
Read On............& then comment please!
I SURE DO have my own personal opinions but, I'll save them for later!
Well, I have been carrying with a CCW for about 2 years. Last weekend I got into a situation and I don't know if I handled things the right way. My friend, who is a female, had a graduation party for her younger sister last friday. She asked my wife and I to go to this party to help her keep things under control and just watch over things. My wife was all about going (mainly because it is her step sister) and I was more or less forced to go. There was an estimated 15 people going to be at this party. Well when my wife and I showed up there were atleast 100 18 year old graduates there and with beer and liquor in hand with music blasting. My friend (the home owner) had a horrified look on her face. My first words to my wife were... "we are leaving right now." She said she would not leave her sister there by her self... so we stayed. Ok to speed this up a little... an hour after being there I broke up a fight between about 10 guys. I told them to leave or the police would be called. They left along with about 40 others who I guess got scared of the police talk. Things calmed down a lot and the party was going ok. My wife and I thinking everything was going ok went into the spare bedroom to go to sleep for the night. This is approx 3:30am. At about 3:45am I wake up to a lot of screaming and pounding. I put on my pants ran into the living room to find: 1) The 50 people that I made leave had returned with more friends 2) There are 20 or so fighting (really kicking the crap out of each other) in the house. 3) My friend (the home owner) holding her bruised face because she got hit in the cross fire of it all 4) A whole lot of broke crap Ok, so I yell out a whole lot of vulgar things and telling them to stop and get out. Of course no one could hear me must less were they listening. There was a boy who was being beaten badly and looked to me in serious danger. Within a seconds time I drew my Glock 29 from the holster. Once again damanding them to stop and to get out. This time my words were heard a little clearer along with about 20 people yelling, oh my God he has a gun. So now I've past the point of no return. The people fighting, who are close to the door, start pushing each other and rushing out the door. About three guys try to rush me from behind, one grabbing my strong arm thats holding the pistol. I was able to duck down and back myself against the wall and talk them back. Eventually, I push myself outside keeping everyone a good distance from me. I continued to demand the group to leave with pistol still unholstered but it is now by my waist pointed downward. I had a few guys jump toward me saying things like go ahead and shoot me. I keep my cool the best I could and they all eventually left. I mean.. everyone left. I'm ready for all the flames and what not. I need to learn from this experience and I'm hoping you all could help me do that. Any comments are welcome. I'm sorry it was so long but there are a lot of details and I had to leave out a lot of filler info.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
June 2nd, 2005 04:27 PM
June 2nd, 2005 04:41 PM
I admire his intentions, and I wasn't there so maybe it really was that bad, but quite frankly I would not pull a stunt like that unless someone was literally about to die.
A bunch of frat boys pommeling the crap out of each other is certainly disconcerting, but it's a matter best handled by the police.
I'd have grabbed my friends and family and locked them in the spare bedroom mentioned in the post and waited for the cavalry to arrive. That was not a wise thing to do.
CCW license holders are trained in personal protection, not riot control. This is a situation made to be handled by 6 deputies toting their 870s or a SWAT team in riot gear.
June 2nd, 2005 04:45 PM
I'd have called the police when the first fight between the 10 guys broke out. Of course, with 18 year olds and liquor do we know they were all 18 or older?
When awakened, cops should have been called.
Gun should not have been pulled, especially when surrounded. Brandishing may work with one or two opponants, but with a whole bunch of guys, who are basically being rowdy, it can be a disaster. (as it almost was when the disarm attempt was made). What would have happened if they had gotten the gun?
Problem is, when the little darlings get home, the story (that they'll all agree on) will be that some crazy guy showed up at the party with a gun.
There's a reason The Sopranos
is set in New Jersey.
June 2nd, 2005 05:55 PM
I think I would have tried to encourage the sister to shut down the party or call the police because of the uninvited guests and underage drinking, before the party got any further out of control. Having been asked to help keep things under control, I would definitely have called the police with the first fight. The party was out of control from the first moment. It needed to be stopped. A single individual drawing on a large, drunk, angry crowd, was...ill-advised. The party should never have gotten that far.
June 2nd, 2005 06:30 PM
The situation was bad before you arrived. To even have such a party with alcohol like that was an invitation for things to go from bad to worse. You said your first reaction was to leave. Your primary mistake was not to do as you knew you should. If your relative wasn't willing to leave as well, you should have left anyway. I also agree with one of the other posts, you should have called the police at the first incident and the party should have been terminated. Frankly, I would have been one of those teens when I was in high school, but now I've learned that it's absolutely crazy to have teenagers and alcohol together under any circumstances. I don't want to offend anyone but having such a party, or not stoping it as soon as it went beyond the 15 or so, showed poor judgement that ended up dragging you into a no win situation. I'm surprised no one called the police on you and I would have expected some parent to attempt to sue you for causing emotional stress to their poor child by pulling a gun like a mad man. You had several opportunities to make better choices but a sense of loyalty kept you engaged in a bad situation. I'm a loyal kind of guy but if a friend/relative insists on choosing an unwise path, I'm not going to go down that path with them, especially with my wife.
I think it's also important for your wife to learn from this that she ought to have more regard for her husband than for her stepsister. That may sound odd to many of you, but it's actually more important in a marriage than most think.
My wife is more important than my children and my children are more important than my friends. My children know this and when they grow up they'll be more likely to value their spouse this way and that'll make their marriage better. When children see either parent put children or other "relatives" ahead of their own husband or wife, it teaches them something by example that words won't easily address.
I hope she (your wife) is more willing to follow your instincts in the future.
Hope I didn't offend you or anyone else but I do respect your true humility in seeking advise so you can learn. I don't see that character in too many anymore. Good for you!
June 2nd, 2005 06:32 PM
June 2nd, 2005 07:34 PM
Everything i would have to say would be so i dont
June 2nd, 2005 08:54 PM
We weren't there of course but - his actions seem foolish, tho all the better he had been able to leave. I tend to be wondering about the repurcusions, of which so far we know nothing - because I would expect some (many!).
Frat guys! <sigh>.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
June 2nd, 2005 09:06 PM
Yea, seems like this guy didn't do to well. It was a police matter as described, not something you handle yourself.
EOD - Initial success or total failure
June 3rd, 2005 01:13 AM
When first arriving at the party it should have been shut down. By allowing them to continue to drink the homeowner was probably guilty of either a misdemeanor (at least) and, possibly, a felony. Once that didn't happen, the police are going to look at the whole situation differently. So my answer would be to simply shut it down up front, completely. Since they didn't do that, the returning kids would not have found me in bed asleep. On the couch possibly, but kids run out of a party almost always come back. They would not have gotten back in the house. With the first sign of a ruckus in the front yard I would have called the police to come break up their fun. Since they didn't do that I would have done whatever it took to get them out of there, except pull my gun. While he may have had good intentions, it could have very easily turned into a real mess. And drawing a weapon on a bunch of "children" (as the prosecutor or the attorney filing the suit would have called them) is going to get you in deep doodoo.....
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
June 3rd, 2005 08:49 AM
June 3rd, 2005 09:09 AM
This guy needs his permit yanked unless he wised up lots after this incident. Police have level2-3 retention holsters for situations like this and still lose their guns sometimes. Poor training can get people in trouble fast.
June 3rd, 2005 05:58 PM
Amazingly stupid. Cops should have been called when he walked in the door. Ditto on the wife. If she feels sis is the priority, I'd expect her to have the phone in hand before he did. Maybe some of that can't-understand-normal-thinking crap that gets so many folks (male and female) torn in itty-bitty pieces? "Mah mah-n can pro-tect us!" (as his not overly aware a** is dragged to the lions' den....)
June 3rd, 2005 06:54 PM
June 4th, 2005 12:39 AM
Well, Bumper summed up everything I wanted to say.
I mean... invincible teenagers + alcohol + party? [like_duh]Helloooooo![/like_duh] The adults allowing this to continue?
"Hi, I'm hosting a party where I know there's going to be trouble, so would you two please come over and play cops for me?"
She asked my wife and I to go to this party to help her keep things under control and just watch over things.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa