Neighbor Might Need Help

This is a discussion on Neighbor Might Need Help within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; To relinquish a child to a stranger is totally stupid. I would make sure my kids were safely in the house before I said anything ...

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Thread: Neighbor Might Need Help

  1. #16
    Member Array FIREARMZ's Avatar
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    To relinquish a child to a stranger is totally stupid. I would make sure my kids were safely in the house before I said anything to make sure they are safe.

    I am not looking to get involved in my neighbors civil law, how ever if a child, any child is at my house playing with my kids and a stranger shows up wanting to take a child, it just is not gonna happen. Watch the news everyday and see the missing kids that disappear from front yards.

    If the guy said I am the kids dad, and I have never been introduced, the cops/mom are going to have to come and figure this one out, but the kid is not going with him until then.

    Now if the suppose to be dad wants to get stupid, thats a different situation. You are in my yard, unknown to me and trying to take a kid, well we will just have to get stupid.


    Think about some of your replies, maybe the lady is lieing, maybe she isn't, regardless you would really let a stranger just walk into your yard and take a child and drive off??
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randy7601 View Post
    Or the neighbor could be lying. Maybe the father has custody and the child was snatched by the mother years ago.

    I'd say take no lethal action until your daughter's safety is threatened.
    True. You have only the woman's say-so that this guy is what he is claimed to be.

    If he came by and without a violent fuss was just taking the daughter, you bet I would NOT be going out to confront him. I'd get a description of the vehicle and the person called in to 911 right away, but am I going to go to prison for drawing on him without provocation? NO WAY. It's not my fight. And if the mother is so worried that this guy's a psycho who might harm her, or take their daughter, let the MOTHER do the MOTHERLY thing and PROTECT HER OWN CHILD. Why should that job fall to me if it's not even important enough to the mother that she'd do it herself?

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmitch40 View Post
    Simply put, I will not release a child that I am responsible for to anyone I don't know. If that upsets the "father" he can take it up with the police when they arrive. They can make the determination as to who should leave with who. If he is the father and has legal rights, then he should be willing to wait and respoect my intentions of protecting his daughter.
    Someone recently reminded me... didn't one of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims escape, only to be brought back and left with him by the police?

  5. #19
    Member Array gmitch40's Avatar
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    Restate for the Record

    Double check post #9.

    If a child is in my custody, for any reason, I am not going to let them leave with someone I have never met, until identification is verified. I can't imagine any responsible parent acting differently. As for the police making the decision, and making the wrong one, that would be tragic but that is the way it should be handled IMO.

    As for protecting them at their home. That is largely their resposibility. I am not looking to go enter a home like an LEO trying to protect somebody. I don't know if the guy is armed with some sort of weapon. I think everyone here would agree that we don't need to go clearing other people homes. If the action is outside, then I would take things as they come. I certainly don't want to have a "Kitty Genovese" situation on my hands.

    All she asked us to do was call 911. Who knows, that may have been because whe will be busy shooting the guy and wants someone else to call the police. I don't know, but I can't imagine myself entering their house while a domestic is ocurring inside.

    I have come to like this forum because of the varied responses. I appreciate everyone's replies and will take the responses under advisement.

  6. #20
    Member Array Kompact9's Avatar
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    Ask your neighbor to verify custody of the child by showing you that portion of the divorce papers. It's the least she can do since she confided in your family and asked you to "keep an eye out" for her ex-husband. Since the child plays on your property and it may put your child in a precarious position, you should know the facts surrounding the issue.

    I'm with the poster that said no child will be taken from my property without some identification, consent from the custodial parent, the parent picking up the child having a most pleasant demeanor, and the child agreeing to go with them. Otherwise, the police will have to sort it out or they can just leave the property.
    noli nothis permittere te terere...

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    This is completely different than the woman being raped....which I agree that someone should have at least called the Police.
    That would have been courteous, wouldn't it?

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    more info

    I started to reply to this last night and got sidetracked.

    Kompact9 finially got on the right track as far as I am concerned.

    There is a lot more information that is needed before a good answer can be given.

    How old is the child in question, and how old are your children? This is very important in that if the situation arises where you need to command your children or the other child to move to a safer area, if the person in question comes a calling on your property. Are the children old enough to actually follow the commands and allow you to call police, or whatever you need to do to intervene?

    Does the neighbor lady in fact have sole custody of the child in this situation? If she is posing these scenarios, she should be willing to provide that proof. Has there been a restraining order issued against the ex? All of these things should be answered.

    If this is a long term relationship, ie, they have purchased thier house and you own yours without plans of moving, then things are different than if they are simply renters with chances of being gone in 6 months or so, at least in my mind they are. The couple of houses around us that are occupied by renters, I make no attempt to get to know any of them because I know they are going to be gone in a little while. I am by no means "friendly" with all the permanent residents of our neighborhood, but I know all of them, and what to expect from them, and who comes and goes to each of their houses.

    This really is a tough scenario. I would definately need more information to give a good answer, but if it is legit, and the ex husband has no business around the wife or kid, then if the child was at my house playing and the ex came around, he would not be leaving with the child.

    Simply calling police would not be enough. There are lots of kids that are abducted by parents and simply disappear for years. I could not let that happen, just like I would not let some stranger come and take a kid from my yard.

    You need to get more information if you and your family are going to continue to have a relationship with this other family. Then you can make a good choice as to what to do.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    I believe in people taking care of each other. I can't buy in to the "it's not my problem" theory. GOOD PEOPLE TAKE CARE OF OTHERS!

    But, being the strange person that I am, if I were forwarned about her ex the way the poster was, I would definitely have to get more info about the new neighbors.

    First, I would let her know (another weird thing about me - the honest approach) that while I feel for her, I have to be concerned for my family, too. If she has the legal custody, I will help out if I can. But she would have to help me check out her story.

    For example, let's talk to the police. Not only would it alert them that the guy could be a problem, maybe they could confirm her status as the good guy (maybe not). If she acts like she doesn't want them to be contacted, it would raise my radar.

    If I can't satisfy myself that her story is true, I would tell her that her daugher cannot come to my property to play. If the ex shows up, I'll be on 911 but won't otherwise interfere.

    Now, let's assume that I have confirmed that she is the good guy. I would let them know that when their daughter is at my house, I will provide for her safety the same as with my own children. At her home, however, I would want to make sure that they know that THEY are responsible for her safety and that I will not interfere unless it is OBVIOUS that the child is in immediate grave danger.

    I believe that once you decide to let the girl come to your home to play with your kid, you have a moral responsibility to provide her with the same protection as you do with your own child.

    But, we each have to decide what risk, responsibility, etc we are willing to accept and act accordingly.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  10. #24
    Member Array skvinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    That would have been courteous, wouldn't it?
    LOL!!!

  11. #25
    Member Array skvinson's Avatar
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    Count me in with the group that says 'I AM my brother's keeper'. I hope one of you is around if someone in my family is in trouble and I'm not there.

  12. #26
    Member Array pappy's Avatar
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    If the kid is at your house, I would like someone said earlier, call the police and just try to get everyone to stay put until they get there, so they can solve it. If he grabs the girl, I would maybe have to insist a little harsher. But first I would just separate the kid and the "dad" and keep an eye on him until police get their. If I see him go up to your neighbors house, I would call the police and just say that I think their may be trouble at this address, go check it out, but I'm not going to go bust down the door to protect them, you don't know whats going on, its one of those times, where you step into a middle of a story and if you do anything, you could be at fault.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    That would have been courteous, wouldn't it?
    Coureous has nothing to do with it. The News said that many of the people were immigrants...which is usually code for illegal. I doubt that even if they had a weapon they wanted to get involved for a bus ride south. If they were legal...how many would have a legal weapon? How many were women? I believe the attackers were two or more males. Being a woman...if I saw such a act being done and DIDN'T have a weapon...all I could do is call the police....not get involved in something that I would not be able to stop and maybe just make it worse. I judge these people as being COWARDS for not even calling the police. If there were several men they were COWARDS for not trying to stop it. This is what I think. What would you have had them do?
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array rabywk's Avatar
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    Your property = your problem. Their property = no problem unless your family is involved.

    Call the police, but I would stay out of it if possible.
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skvinson View Post
    Count me in with the group that says 'I AM my brother's keeper'. I hope one of you is around if someone in my family is in trouble and I'm not there.
    It depends on the incident. I would not be going off willy nilly until I saw what the exact incident is.
    If you and the wife are having a loud disagreement and your wife slips and falls, not from anything you did, but it looks like you did. Would I be in the right running up and drawing down on you with the order of "Step away from the lady!"?
    Of course not....I wouldn't have all the facts. Calling the police and letting them get all the facts would be what I would do. As well as watching to be a good witness.
    If a man runs up and slugs your wife and starts dragging her away, I believe I would have to get involved more than a phone call. If armed...which is usually...I would draw and order. If not armed I would call police and follow to give a report while looking for others to assist. If given a chance...I would also take my cane and start beatting the guy....if I thought it would make him stop.
    When I say "Action without thought is like shooting without aim" I really mean that.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappy View Post
    If the kid is at your house, I would like someone said earlier, call the police and just try to get everyone to stay put until they get there, so they can solve it. If he grabs the girl, I would maybe have to insist a little harsher. But first I would just separate the kid and the "dad" and keep an eye on him until police get their. If I see him go up to your neighbors house, I would call the police and just say that I think their may be trouble at this address, go check it out, but I'm not going to go bust down the door to protect them, you don't know whats going on, its one of those times, where you step into a middle of a story and if you do anything, you could be at fault.
    That is why I think if you are going to allow this child to play at your house...it should be inside or out of public view in the backyard....while a adult keeps a watch.
    If this girl's mother is that concerned....she would already be doing this. The child shouldn't be put out for display either at home or at a neighbor's and ALWAYS be under the watchful eye of a responsible adult.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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