August 29th, 2007 11:27 AM
What happens to your License and gun after the Encounter?
The title pretty much says it all, but I was wondering what happens after the self defense shooting of the BG. Is it pretty much a confiscaton of both gun and license? Does this vary by state?
August 29th, 2007 11:38 AM
It depends on the facts of the case.
Originally Posted by AlongcameJones
Your gun is likely getting confiscated as evidence. Your carry permit may be held or suspended depending on the facts of the incident as the police determine them.
What happens is to specific and fact based to give you any more than a general answer.
August 29th, 2007 11:40 AM
In PA your weapon will be retained by the investigating agency. It will be returned to you pending outcome of the investigation. If the shoot is found to be within the parameters of lawful use of force it should be returned to you soon. If the use of force is considered to be unlawful and you are charged it (and you) will be tied up in court for a while. If you are acquitted of the charges, you should get your property back. If you are convicted (the charges will probably be of felony level) you will not have it returned. Additionally, you be ordered, as part of your sentance, to relinquish or transfer any additional weapons you may control. As for your CCW. It should remain in effect during the process. It can, however, be revoked at any time by the Commonwealth. This may come in to play if your actions are really outside of the lines.
August 29th, 2007 11:41 AM
I don't know of any state law that would specify the surrender of the CCL. As far as the weapon, mostly depends on the state and the circumstances surrounding the incident. Expect that if the circumstances show it to be a clear cut issue of self defense or defense of someone else, chances are the officer would not take the weapon.
Course if you're in England, good luck.
You'll get more on this soon, I'm sure.
August 29th, 2007 12:34 PM
you may walk away or get arrested but either way they will most likely take the firearm.
August 29th, 2007 03:08 PM
Most likely your firearm will be taken as evidence for the duration of the investigation. Investigators will want to get forensic evidence from the weapon to verify that it indeed was the weapon used, and whether or not you were the one that used it (even if you stated that you did, there have been cases of persons covering for someone else). Depending on state laws, your license may be suspended or revoked. Here in Oregon, your license can be taken away during an investigation. If all things are great and you are deemed in the clear, then you should get everything back reasonably quickly. If things don't go great, and you are charged then you will be in for a long legal battle and getting your weapon back will probably be the least of your concerns.
I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.
August 29th, 2007 03:21 PM
They take the gun, you may or may not get it back. I remember reading a story where a guy was carrying music recording equipment from his car, into his apartment. He was attacked, and wounded in the leg, at which point he drew his own CCW permit weapon and returned fire, killing one and sending another fleeing... I think it was in FL. They took his gun as evidence, and the recording equipment since it had blood on it. The firearm was destroyed by the police...
The funny part was that the guy didn't care that his gun was destroyed, said he never wanted it back anyway... but he was suing to get his missing recording equipment returned.
(Note: This post is from memory, I could be wrong on the facts stated above, but this is how I remember it.)
August 29th, 2007 07:08 PM
Expect the weapon to be taken into custody immediately. In Virginia, the permit is issued by a judge, so only a judge can suspend it! Much the same as a driver's license, the LEO can't 'confiscate it'.
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
August 29th, 2007 09:27 PM
I'm sure that the law varies in each state. What may go in one state wont work for another.
I can tell you what will happen in Arkansas...and only Arkansas.
If you are in a defensive shooting, your permit will be confiscated by the officer or Dept. that responds. It will be immediately sent to the Ar. State Police where it will be "held" until a disposition of the case is determined. You firearm will be taken and either held by the arresting agency as evidence, or it could be sent to the state crime lab in Little Rock for testing.
How the case ends up determines if you get your permit back and your gun.
A friend of mine went through just that a few weeks ago, I posted about it here. He got both his permit and his gun back after the Prosecutor determined that it was self defense.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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August 29th, 2007 11:06 PM
The legal situation in Florida is as follows:
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.--
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
WHICH ARE -
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.--A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.--
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
776.031 Use of force in defense of others.--A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
Bottom line is that unless the shot is clearly not righteous, I can not be arrested and my weapon taken.
Last edited by GHFLRLTD; August 29th, 2007 at 11:11 PM.
George H. Foster
August 30th, 2007 02:50 PM
Check your local laws and if you still have questions call your State AG.
NRA Rifle Coach
NRA Pistol Instructor
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--- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???
September 8th, 2007 09:25 PM
Well, I know that in Florida, you are required to have the actual license card on you if you are carrying. Here's the thing: you could get an uncooperative cop who might insist on taking the license during the investigation and send you home without it. If you then got caught carrying before getting it back, you'd be in some procedural trouble (at least, in FL).
Originally Posted by goawayfarm
I just wonder on what legal basis they might take the card from you and not let you have it back to go home with after the shooting. We're talking about a shooting that does not result in you being arrested, obviously. But what recourse does anyone think you'd have if the cop just simply said, "No, you can't have this back"? Even though only a judge can rescind your permit (in your jurisdiction) a fat lot of good that would do you against a cop who didn't really care. So if Virginia is like Florida in that you have to have the physical card in order to carry, you could be screwed. And we remember the case in which someone was given a big hassle for open carrying even though it was perfectly legal; sometimes the people with power over you just don't care.
September 8th, 2007 09:37 PM
PJ, at least we could theoretically open carry if that were the case.
September 8th, 2007 10:42 PM
To Alongcamejones... Expect that at the very least, both your permit and gun may be taken. At least for a little while! While they may let you keep your ccw permit, they will almost certainly take the gun to undergo forensic testing on the gun as well as the ammunition in the gun.
If all goes well, you should get your weapon and permit back. If you are charged... You won't get anything back until after you are acquitted... and even then, they may keep the gun.
Of course if you are convicted... like someone else said... you won't be worrying about the gun and permit.
I have had corrispondence with the Palm Beach County Public Defenders office regarding a recent trial of a man named Borland. He was tried for 1st degree murder on an obvious case of self defense in a purely political trial and was facing Life Without Parole.
Originally Posted by GHFLRLTD
I contacted his attorney to help them secure expert witnesses on behalf of Mr. Borland. Eventually he was acquitted, but his attorney said they have some rogue prosecutors who are proceeding with charges against ccw holders in shootings in an effort challenge the castle doctrine law. They have seen a rise of this in Palm Beach County.
So, regardless of what Florida's castle doctrine states... I wouldn't bet on the fact that you won't be arrested, even if it is a clear cut case of self defense.
That's the chance you take when you make a conscious decision to strap on a gun and use a gun to defend yourself.
It ain't right, but it is reality!
A wise man once said, "any time you strap on a gun and walk among the masses, you are walking on thin ice. As soon as you pull your gun, you've just started to hop on the ice!"
Stay Safe! Stay Armed!
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
September 9th, 2007 02:31 AM
Actually, the way I read it is that unless the shoot was clearly righteous they can arrest you and take your weapon.
Originally Posted by GHFLRLTD
Don't forget, they are not going to be able to evaluate all of the forensic evidence right then and there, and there is a distinct possibility that there might be hostile witnesses. If they have dead guy with a gun, and a live guy with a gun, and three of dead guys drinking buddies telling a story favorable to him, and only you telling the truth, what do you think is going to happen on that scene?
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