Shady - Page 2

Shady

This is a discussion on Shady within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Aside from their looks, clothing, appearance, etc, where and when they happen to be is a big factor on defining shady too. You might not ...

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Thread: Shady

  1. #16
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    Aside from their looks, clothing, appearance, etc, where and when they happen to be is a big factor on defining shady too. You might not think too much about the poorly-dressed guy hanging outside the local grocery store during the daylight but you'll think a LOT more alarm about the same poorly-dressed guy hanging around the shadows at night outside the grocery store.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    Another factor for me is location. If a person seems to be out of place where they are, I tend to hawkeye them until they are far enough away to be little or no threat.

    For example: A "gang banger" or any other "hard" individual or group would be suspect in my neighborhood, let alone in my town. Closer to where I work, they wouldn't get a second hard look.

    If I go to the mall (yeah right), I expect to see this type of individual. Being that the mall in my area is a criminal friendly area, my "Spidey Senses" meter would be pegged. But Wal-Mart and Target are easier on my neck.
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  3. #18
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    ctions

    Actions.

    Well I tend to agree with most all of the postings. Yes, we all discriminate to a certain extent no matter what our upbringing. The gang banger, or thug gets a second look most times by most of us I would guess. But lots of them turn out to just be wannabe's, and look realy silly acting the part.

    I don't agree with the proposal that we have a genetic makeup for survival necessarily. Humans are probably the least able to survive on instincts than any other animal in my opinion. We do tend to let the weak survive in our society, simply out of compassion. Other animals don't have compassion.

    Actions are what cause me to give people a second look. If they are walking around without paying attention to what is going on. I generally don't pay them much attention. If they are keeping a good eye on what is going on, or watching others with a bit too much interest, they definately get my attention along with the person they are watching. Sometimes the ones they are watching are the ones that need the sizing up. Generally when someone is on my careful watch list when I am out and they realize that they are being watched closely, they tend to change thier actions or change thier location. Not always, but the ones that don't move along or change thier actions, know they are being viewed with caution and usually acknowledge it one way or another.

    I hope that I notice the ones that need it based on this approach. Hopefully I will never miss the one I really needed to be watching carefully.

    I guess what would really be interesting is if a bunch of ccw people, or alert people ended up in the same somewhat confining place without knowing. That would be interesting to see the looks given.
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  4. #19
    Member Array ExSniper's Avatar
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    "Shady" - noun, anyone I do not know and who has not proven to me they are not a threat to me or my family.
    This cuts down on profiling, as I assume everyone is "shady" until they prove to me they are not. See rule 21 as listed in earlier post.

  5. #20
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    I use all the techniques described above to seek out who I look out for.

    I have also spent close to 30 years working the streets I do notice things others don't seem to. However, "street sense", like shooting, is a depreciable skill. In other words, if you don't use it, you lose it. As such, working in a rural area now, my "street sense" is not nearly as acute as it was when I working in a large metro inner city environment.

    One thing that really gets my alert level up are people that surprise you!

    I am usually pretty aware of my surroundings and what's going on, so those people that seem to "pop out of nowhere" will raise my alert level.

    People who weren't around just a moment or two before, and then, all of a sudden materialize, get very close scrutiny!

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  6. #21
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    What, are you trying to get me to open my mouth and get in trouble for saying something racially insensitive??

    I think there is so much involved in deciding someone is "shady"--including unquantifiable things you would have to call "intuition"--that you can't really come up with a checklist that would work universally.

    Different areas of the country will have different causes for concern, based on different demographics. Even climate will come into play (since it affects mode of dress, and whether a weapon of a given size could be concealed on someone's person).

    Around here in south Florida, the criminals attackers can come in any race (really, just like anyplace else). They can be white, hispanic, black, you name it. I've been approached by white scam-artists in the Target parking lot; I've been confronted by agitated black beggars; and just forget about the assortment of stuff I read about daily in the newspaper. You get the sense that crime is all around.

    Some of the worst stuff that goes on most frequently around here involves gang-member types, and around here most of them are black or hispanic. And whether you'll call it prejudiced or not, when I see dreadlocked or braided hair, I go on alert around here. That's just the way it is. That hairstyle seems to be like wearing gang colors, in south Florida.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSniper View Post
    "Shady" - noun, anyone I do not know and who has not proven to me they are not a threat to me or my family.
    This cuts down on profiling, as I assume everyone is "shady" until they prove to me they are not. See rule 21 as listed in earlier post.
    Good call.

  8. #23
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    Everyone is competing for finite resources, whether it be jobs, space, food, attention, whatever. At some point, everyone flips a switch to become competitive with others for those things.

    Criminals simply have the need or will to flip that switch far, far earlier than most folks, to compete for those things that are probably best classified as "life support" elements.

    I'm with others who have said that respect is earned. Strangers are, until proven otherwise over time, unknown to me and therefore assumed to be capable of anything. Everything they and others do helps to break down those barriers: what they say, how they act, who knows them, how they engage with others, specifically what they do and how they do those things.

    On the street, though, it's the whole package of actions and "little things" that provides clues to the puzzle. Some folks are obviously angling for fresh fish, dangerous in their whole approach. They are the most-easily seen types of people, for anyone with the head pulled out. Some criminal types can pay far too much attention to others, or be skittish in how they're monitoring others. When I see that sort of thing, my radar goes straight to the highest setting. Obvious, hard-to-miss elements include threatening speech or actions, overtly criminal actions, etc. Other things that are tougher to read include body movements that suggest he/she is a "tough", direction of travel to intercept or surround someone else, coordinated movements or contact with apparent accomplices. Those things can be harder to pick up.

    In short, "spidey sense" means a lot. When those little hairs on the back of your neck are standing on end, you are catching wind of those little signals that your main brain is missing. You have seen, heard or smelled something that isn't right, something in the whole package that doesn't add up. Listen to it, every time. It's smarter than you. It's the little angel on your shoulder telling you that you've just entered someone's zone, that things aren't quite right, and that you're at risk of harm.

    I've had the signals go "off" a dozen times and have listened to it every time. If in public, I work to change directions, rate of speed, whether I'm in a heavily-traveled public space and in a space where I can protect myself. Several of those times, I have caught sight of "shady" characters that were on my tail and had obviously bad designs on me. I don't ever ignore those signals or the hairs standing up. Spidey sense is that link to instinct that we've mostly forgotten, in the modern world. Too bad, 'cause it can be pretty effective at putting together pieces of the puzzle that our main brains miss.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    Without profiling by intent (and sometimes we profile subconsciously of course, like it or not) - it is for me the ''Spidey Sense" element.......

    Profiling is only a political faux pas -- race is an important factor in violent crime and should not be ignored. Statistically, certain combinations of age and race are associated with much higher rates of violent crime.

  10. #25
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    One of my best friends could be considered "shady" looking - long ponytail, scruffy beard, gaunt face, wears camo. I suppose he scares a lot of people, but I know I can trust my life to him, and he wouldn't hurt anyone who didn't try to hurt him first.

    For me, "shady" is mostly behavior - the person can look nice and be dressed well, or he can look like a thug - but if he acts suspicious, he's on my radar.

    There's any number of people who set my radar off, from those already stated by other members and:

    - people who appear deliberately oblivious, as if they're trying too hard to hide the fact they're up to something

    - the "too helpful" or "too sweet" - the Ted Bundy, well-dressed, smiling type. A lady can't be too careful.

    "Looks like a duck and quacks like a duck" is easy enough, but the truly diabolical creeps are sneaky.

    So I keep my eyes peeled, and try to keep myself out of situations where I would need assistance, by having the means and knowledge to resolve the situations myself - like knowing how to change a flat tire.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  11. #26
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    Profiling? You BET!

    I'm no bigot, but the concern over "racially insensitive" comments strike me as Politically Correct to a potentionally fatal degree. Let me put it this way...I PROFILE people; age, race, sex, dress, demeanor, the works. I use everything I can pick-up & mentally process including those things that are expressly forbidden as reasons for illegal discrimination. I'm not trying to keep anyone from voting or buying a house. I'm trying to identify persons who have a higher probability of being a threat to me. Let's be honest, the REASON we don't go to Condition-Red at the sight of an elderly lady with a walker is because elderly ladies with walkers don't usually assault people. If they did, we might reach our hand into our pocket and grip our j-frame in advance of their approach.

    There's a reason why a lot of the criminals in of prison look alike (and I don't mean race). It's because they fit a profile. And the more aware I am of watching for that profile, the safer my path through society becomes. Political Correctness be damned.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  12. #27
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    You may want to scratch old ladies off the ignore list - there was one a while back that did armed bank robberies.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  13. #28
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    Profiling is only a political faux pas -- race is an important factor in violent crime and should not be ignored. Statistically, certain combinations of age and race are associated with much higher rates of violent crime.
    agreed but which race it is depends on your geographic locale :) unfortunatly the lower socio econonmic groups turn to predation to get what you have. The ethicnicity varies based on where in the country you are. Profiling is distasteful but unfortunatly useful in determing risk. There are certain physical "tells"
    which altough not specfic to bg our often found with them tats on the neck excessive tats, unkempt appearance . Behavior is also a tell can range from odd behavior out of place for the setting( talking very loud or drunk in quiet place) stalking or being aggresive. I think the intuition is subconscious summing of multiple tells.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankshop1000 View Post
    Shady is a politically correct way of avoiding racially profiling a BG. And we all know racial profiling is WRONG.
    I'm not a bigot- I distrust everyone. Getting dead is a greater sin in my book than being suspicious; suspicion is a sin I can live with.

    With Barkn', environment and exposure has a great deal to do with accurate assessment. If you're out of your normal AO, your "reads" will be off.

    Forgot to add: with the genuinely dangerous folks, "Spidey-sense" does all the good of an umbrella in the middle of a hurricane. Instincts are necessary, but be able to reason with them as well.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Why are people equating one being "shady" with race/ethnicity? :huh:

    That makes no sense at all considering literally anyone can be deemed as "shady" relative to a given specific environment, situation, and that individuals own specific demeanor.

    Why not say that to be shady is singularly specific to ones current location, or their gender, or their clothing type?
    It's just as silly and inaccurate an assessment.

    Ones race/ethnicity, gender, or clothing in specific are not indicators of a person possibly being questionable.
    Proof of this is everywhere and in jails & prisons across the land.
    Bad guys don't always wear black, have black eyes and/or black hair (or for that matter hair at all), or lurk in shadows sporting black hats, or have big black tats...or any other identifier folk might like to think of.

    BTW as to violent crime and running by stats the majority of crimes in the US committed against a person are by persons from their own race.
    So if you are say Negro then well you are most likely to be a victim of Black on Black crime. If you are Caucasian then you are most likely to be a victim of crime by same. If you are female though you are very likely to suffer crime at the hand of a man rather than another female. That though does not exclude the obvious that crime does crossover and women do attack women as well as men and that Negros obviously do often times fall victim to crime by Caucasians and vice versa. Noting singularly or even heavily race/ethnicity in specific doesn't work well in reality outside of narrow band and specific zones/situations.

    Thinking that someone is "shady" is not a PC way of avoiding racial profiling.
    It has nothing to do at all with race or racial profiling.
    A person deemed as shady can be anyone, anywhere, at anytime including ones neighbor, a relative, or housemate.

    Being 'shady' is a condition of specific situational attitude/demeanor.
    Notice of as much really comes back to 'horse sense' and noting cues as based on past experience and/or gut instinct that hey that person(s) in this specific situation just isn't making me feel warm & fuzzy.

    For those who might be curious take a peek here at some stats toward degree of shadiness in so far as crime...

    * Crime Statistics > Statistics > Violent crime (Latest available) by state
    http://www.statemaster.com/red/graph...iolent&b_map=1
    Note: If you live in one of the top 18 states then your crime is well above the national average. Your specific location alone makes you and everyone near you suspect to the rest of the nation as being "shady".

    * Crime Statistics > Statistics > Violent crime (per capita) (Latest available) by state
    http://www.statemaster.com/red/graph...capita&b_map=1
    Note: If you live in or are from any of the top 24 states ranging from DC to PA then you are to the rest of the nation suspect as being "shady".

    Oh and for the people hung up on "Politically Correct" this 'n that statements do not look further...

    * People > Percent of People Who are Black or African American Alone (vs) Crime > Homicide > Victims by Race > Black
    http://www.statemaster.com/plot/peo_...y_rac_bla/flag

    * People > Percent of People Who are White Alone, Not Hispanic or Latino (vs) Crime > Violent crime (per capita)
    http://www.statemaster.com/plot/peo_...ri_percap/flag

    * People > Percent of People Who are Black or African American Alone (vs) Crime > Homicide > Victims by White Male
    http://www.statemaster.com/plot/peo_...y_whi_mal/flag

    Tons more of statistical information including multiple interesting correlations of data for the US can be found for free at StateMaster.com.
    If you have an interest in same toward the world at large then go to NationMaster.com for similar.

    - Janq is by statistic and gender and race and past as well as current residence location a "shady" person even as I have no tats but I do wear on occasion a black hat 8O
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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