New Face to an Old Threat

This is a discussion on New Face to an Old Threat within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Okay, I'm pretty sure we already had a thread on the new "Bad Boys" who call themselves MS 13. I just got the following quote ...

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Thread: New Face to an Old Threat

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Lightbulb New Face to an Old Threat

    Okay, I'm pretty sure we already had a thread on the new "Bad Boys" who call themselves MS 13. I just got the following quote off Free Republic:

    MS-13 was founded in Los Angeles by the offspring of the immigrants for protection. Later, many of the members were deported back to Central America where they expanded their operations and found fertile ground for the recruitment of new members among the hundreds of thousand of young people with no hope or future.

    The Mara Salvatruchas are known to cut the "testicles" of their enemies and feed them to their vicious dogs. Other times they have cut the heads off their opponents to play football soccer with them. These are not people to mess around with.
    http://aztlan.net/salvatruchas_vs_minutemen.htm
    Today, the Mara Salvatruchas have grown immensely in numbers and their network has expanded through Mexico all the way to Canada. The extremely violent group controls large portions of the drug, stolen vehicle and immigrant smuggling operations along the US/Mexico border and will not put up with clowns like the Minutemen vigilantes.


    I'm thinking these folks are underestimating the Minutemen who are I think a lot of them, combat vets along with some former SpecOps folks, so they may be more of a force to deal with especially in a field rather than an URBAN situation.

    But their behavior shows a sense of BRUTALITY that goes beyond the norm. These punks are unlikely to pose a serious threat (yet) to Joe Citizen minding his own business in suburbia but I think it's very likely that they may well subcontract their services as soldiers for terrorists as long as there is a significant piece of the pie for them. So we have to start thinking how to deal with them. Here's what I have gleaned from talking to my cop buddies:

    If you cross them it's combat. Period. They can't be "talked down or out of a confrontation." If you call the cops or especially if you expect to testify against them they are extremely likely to try and wipe out your entire family. That's their MO, anyway. So what does this mean for you, me and our families? Are we likely to see a lot of real support from law enforcement beyond just "give up?" In fact is the gubermint more likely to actively try and dissuade citizens from defending themselves from the gang, to protect us?

    Thoughts?

    Apologies if this is a duplicate thread.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Ex - we touched on MS-13 in a thread a while back but they are without doubt a mega scary deal. They do NOT take prisoners and yeah - the fear of retribution if they are crossed is IMO uncomfortably real.

    I say that because, I have always been of the opinion that anyone, if determined - can ''get to you'' ........ they can have the element of surprise and the timing on their side - plus, perhaps the most scary part - their determination to totally F' with your whole family.

    No one wants to be a target - I doubt very much, but their method of operation seems to be based very heavily on targetting. Therefore the dilemma rears up regarding how the heck to deal with them - should any of us be so unfortunate as to have any contact.

    Their influence is cancerous and spreading - and I can see the day when LE can not control them at all - but neither tho will the average Joe Schmoe be able to either. It will take a much more profound approach to deal with them - to the extent that I would see ''the good guys'' getting together to eliminate the threat. That would be a desperation measure I fear but - probably the only recourse, whereby safety in numbers for us - becomes the overriding winning deal.

    Sheeple and wusses would call this vigilantiism no doubt, but I could see it as being necessary - in maybe the most saturated areas - one day. How else can a threat so potentially damaging be dealt with, if it gets way outa control?
    Chris - P95
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    Good atricle in L&O magazine a couple of month ago.
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

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    Talking There....are ALWAYS possibilities....

    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    How else can a threat so potentially damaging be dealt with, if it gets way outa control?
    Airstrike? Mortars? Ring-Main CLAYMORE's in a cul-de-sac? I'm SURE we can think of something! People (I use the term in the loosest sense) like this usually make the supreme mistake to think they are the biggest baddest predator in the jungle. When you kick the tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth. We grow tigers very large here.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    Therefore the dilemma rears up regarding how the heck to deal with them - should any of us be so unfortunate as to have any contact.
    With extreme prejudice, violence and ruthlessness.
    Seek safety at the heart of danger.

    Live Easy, Die Hard

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    Sheeple and wusses would call this vigilantiism no doubt,
    I personally think vigilantes are highly underrated.
    What would you call our Founding Fathers, if not Vigilantes?

    What should we do if we encounter MS-13?
    Well, given the information I've read thus far, we kill them. Failure drills all around. I believe I can articulate, in a court of law, why I had to kill every last one of these vermin, based on fear of retribution against myself and my family. Based on tattoos and dress, they would seem easy to identify as MS-13.

    The preceding is only partially toungue in cheek. This is an issue which bears thinking about in depth, IMO.
    "Water can flow, or it can crash. Be like water, my friend."-Bruce Lee

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    Americans lack organization to deal with this threat. Example, the politicians are organized standing shoulder to shoulder with LEO. Ever see a picture of a politician without LEO nearby? So how come politicians are not voicing concern? If Americans were to organize against this threat you would see swat strikes against the organization along with people standing in cuffs on tv. In short your own kind would kill you and your family, the BG would not have to lift a finger. If we look at the number of people carrying firearms state by state it is very low, usually around 2 percent, I believe one state gets up to 5 percent. Does not sound like a defensive force to me. Here in Orange County CA we have about 3 million people with maybe 1000 people licensed, don't know if that includes LEO or not. So much for our constitution. We who follow the violence in the usa understand what needs to be done to hold down these BG but we for the most part must wait for formal help. When the LA Mexican neighborhoods were having drive by shootings killing their children the cops could not stop it, the Mexican mafia put the lid on it. There was more bad than good about the itialian mafia but their neighborhood sure was safe.
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    If we look at the number of people carrying firearms state by state it is very low, usually around 2 percent, I believe one state gets up to 5 percent.
    True FortyFive - uptake is relatively low but I do believe PA here is among the front runners, with in excess now of 6%. Add to that overall firearms ownership and we have a reasonably gun savvy state.

    Leaving aside those of us who carry however - if we look just at ''potential militia''- appropos numbers of folks armed in some way (hunters, even casual rifle owners) - then we do have IMO quite a pool to draw from. Organization tho is as you suggest a key issue and not in very good supply!

    Big difference between ''available'' and ''potential'' - always.
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Good point on the Hunter/Sportsman firearms owners, I sometimes forget that there are a bunch of people out there who own but don't carry. In PA out in the bonnies people have a better chance at coordinating an effort like home guard, you know I will watch your property and you watch mine sort of thing. I believe also a car not known to small town folks will get an eyeball going down a dirt road and somebody will have their phone ringing. Southeast OK was very much a clan sort of country, no doubt you would have a problem driving parts there where you don't belong.
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    Lightbulb Sheep v. Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    Organization tho is as you suggest a key issue and not in very good supply!
    See, I have found by experience that when there is nobody capable of Taking Command then there is a vacume of "organization." But the very instant a leader with a sense of "command presence" steps up and starts issuing orders, especially where it is evident that he or she is an expert in the crisis that is underway, well the sheep do what they do best and that is to FOLLOW.

    So my guess is that say a mall attack by terrorists where there is more than one CCW armed and ready there will be a leader ready to take command and direct fire and manuever to eliminate the threat. It may take a bit to make orders understood, But something happens when the command voice cuts thru the fog. Some of you guys know exactly what I mean.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Some of you guys know exactly what I mean.
    Indeed Ex and you would of course be a great example with your experience.

    I think I was using the ''organization'' label in a very broad manner when I mentioned it - maybe also use the word ''coordination'' ... when it comes to local and regional matters.

    Certainly tho re the mall example - I would imagine any of us CCW folks would almost without conscious thought be quick to issue warnings, directives etc - pretty much automatically. Filling that vacuum somewhat.... tho that instance is very much for a sudden emergency type of scene.

    If on a longer term basis following attack - then this is where some local leadership would need to surface - again maybe us folks might well take the initiative, if only because of our relative extra firearms experience, and then drill the ''other folks'' into shape!

    Some leadership is essential tho if only to control that one most unwanted phenomenon - PANIC!!! Folks panicking are about as useful as too many blackeye beans with an over hot chilli, swilled down with one cold one too many!
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Member Array WyattEarp's Avatar
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    Very Interesting read,


    What the hell kind of article is this though, does the author expect to gain any credibility from this bs? He's obviously pro-MS-13 & anti-American, all he does is downplay & insult the Minuteman, calling them cowards, vigilantes, amateurs, clowns, senile, rednecks, etc... While he praises & makes these illegal alien scumbags look like they're Heroes, ***???

    Then he puts a picture of some monkey looking guy & expects people to fear that thing?

    Hey W, close the damn border so we can stop the flow of these scumbags into our country!!!!!
    Stops Jihad on Contact

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    Wink MS13 clarifications

    Quote Originally Posted by WyattEarp
    Very Interesting read,


    What the hell kind of article is this though, does the author expect to gain any credibility from this bs? He's obviously pro-MS-13 & anti-American, all he does is downplay & insult the Minuteman, calling them cowards, vigilantes, amateurs, clowns, senile, rednecks, etc... While he praises & makes these illegal alien scumbags look like they're Heroes, ***???

    Then he puts a picture of some monkey looking guy & expects people to fear that thing?

    Hey W, close the damn border so we can stop the flow of these scumbags into our country!!!!!
    I agree with you about the sense of the article, but I think I was referring to the info on MS13 operations and what is going to be expected in any confrontation with them. They're not cowards, not in the classic sense. They'll shoot it out with you but have enough experience and survival instincts to know when to melt away and fight again at a time and place of their own choosing. I'll try and post a link to the latest Minuteman update I got from them. In two months something like 60,000 illegal border crossings prevented!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Member Array WyattEarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    I agree with you about the sense of the article, but I think I was referring to the info on MS13 operations and what is going to be expected in any confrontation with them. They're not cowards, not in the classic sense. They'll shoot it out with you but have enough experience and survival instincts to know when to melt away and fight again at a time and place of their own choosing. I'll try and post a link to the latest Minuteman update I got from them. In two months something like 60,000 illegal border crossings prevented!

    I understand & agree completely with what you were referring to. It's the author of the article that ticked me off after i read it. Sorry if it sounded like i was directing my remark towards you.
    Stops Jihad on Contact

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