Tactical teaser.

Tactical teaser.

This is a discussion on Tactical teaser. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It's late evening - your wife asks you to drop down to the ''8 till late'' half a mile away, to pick up a jug ...

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  1. #1
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    Tactical teaser.

    It's late evening - your wife asks you to drop down to the ''8 till late'' half a mile away, to pick up a jug of milk and a loaf of bread.

    You arrive, park in small empty lot, go in and get the goods. Brief chat with clerk who you know - and five minutes later you return to car. Parking lot still appears empty as you scan, and no traffic visible.

    As you are about to start up, a car drives in real quick and stops abruptly, blocking your exit about six feet away - you have no way to reverse into any useable clear space. Two guys immediately get out and each carries a gun hanging lose at side, each one heading for opposite sides of your car.

    Total time from the appearance of car to the guys approaching - max 4 seconds.

    Your action - based on no guns actually pointing and no shots yet fired? Remember, you are in your car, door shut. You are of course carrying.

    Go!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.


  2. #2
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    That is a pickle to be in, exit the car and make one pay for his deed as soon as possible providing no LEO badges are being flashed etc. My understanding is you don't want to fight from within the car. Not much time for decision making. Depending on how your blocked in you could also ram their vehicle a number of times if required. Lets see what others say about this.
    As you slide down the banister of life,
    May the splinters never point the wrong way.
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    NRA Life Member

  3. #3
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    reverse in my p/u works just fine. Open a path the the old 350 cu. and stay low. Most folks will scatter when 2 vehicles collide. Also draw and be ready to engage the d. side BG. If 2 of em are aproaching with guns, time to react.

  4. #4
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    reverse in my p/u works just fine.
    Ahh but Rocky - per my post ....
    you have no way to reverse into any useable clear space.
    Plus if you drive forward to smash their car you actually have to close on those guys in so doing. Unless they are sufficiently surprised - they'll have an edge on you?
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  5. #5
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    Would have to agree, If it could be established (extremely fast) that they are not LEO, than I would start reversing, ramming forwards backwards every which way, all the while watching the "bad things" and engaging if necessary. This is the reason that whenever possible I park a little further out where parking lots are usually less full so I can't get blocked in, also prevents people from hiding around other cars to have a jump on you. Oh, and it helps keep your ride from getting dinged.

  6. #6
    Member Array cmbthgun's Avatar
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    Forgot that part too. Guess I would see if I had a second to get out and create distance, and find cover. Other than that If the drivers side one got up to me before I could make a dash, I would kick the door open on him as hard as I could to try to knock him off balance and then determine my most imminent threat and start engaging when appropriate. This is a good one.

  7. #7
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    If it could be established (extremely fast) that they are not LEO
    I think a safe assumption here they are not - due to mode of gun carry - lose at side as against (I'd expect) low ready from LE.

    Re ramming - remember at this point the car is not yet engine running - our guy has not yet gotten to that. Plus any reversing will only smash his back end.

    Good point re where and how we park - I agree on the comment cmb. Unfortunately our guy forgot that sound decision this time!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    It's late evening - your wife asks you to drop down to the ''8 till late'' half a mile away, to pick up a jug of milk and a loaf of bread.

    You arrive, park in small empty lot, go in and get the goods. Brief chat with clerk who you know - and five minutes later you return to car. Parking lot still appears empty as you scan, and no traffic visible.

    "As you are about to start up, a car drives in real quick and stops abruptly, blocking your exit about six feet away" - you have no way to reverse into any useable clear space. Two guys immediately get out and each carries a gun hanging lose at side, each one heading for opposite sides of your car.

    Total time from the appearance of car to the guys approaching - max 4 seconds.

    Your action - based on no guns actually pointing and no shots yet fired? Remember, you are in your car, door shut. You are of course carrying.

    Go!!
    Six feet is a lot, and most people do not park with front bumper against the building.

    Do not believe the plot is well conceived.

    I drive out if I have to drive thru building.
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

  9. #9
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    KC - true, 6 feet is quite a lot but - with a car stopped right across the bows of another, I'd doubt anything has enough steering lock to make one forward pass and reliably clear the other.

    During such an attempt you would draw right alongside the BG on driver's side too.

    Sorry it comes over a poorly conceived! Perhaps a diagram would help.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  10. #10
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    Talking

    Pick up your cell phone and call 911? Sorry, just couldn't help myself this morning.

  11. #11
    sm
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    Rock & Roll

    Distance is your friend.

    If these "persons" are LEO or BGs - I was not invited to the party- makes no nevermind.

    If persons are on driver's side - I'm gonna do the 'shotgun roll' - reach over, pop the passenger side door open and roll myself out and away with vehicle offering cover/ concealement - something/ anything.

    If Person's are on passenger side, I'm out the driver's door.

    Ramming is an option.

    I do NOT know if the person's are BGs. I do not know if the person's are LEO and someone in the store called the LEO. I do not know if the person that rang up my bread and milk was the BG and the store attendent(s) is/are in back, or if somehow attendent(s) hit a silent alarm, or was able to call for help.

    I can make a real good observer and witness since I don't get paid to get shot at.

    I always recall the question : "If you happened upon a alley and shots fired would you get involved?".

    Remember the guy(s) with the gun(s) just might be a UC LEO...not a good idea to shoot a LEO

    Since I have assisted with some UC LEO...

    I did not venture down that dark alley as there may have been three or four dudes with a baseball bat - Richard Pryor

    [yes I cleaned the quote up a bit]


    Distance is your friend.

    Oh...I keep a box of powdered milk in the cupboard for emergencies. I make scratch biscuits and use water not milk . I drink my coffee black and I ...well momma can learn to make scratch biscuits, drink her coffee black..." what about smokes?"

    I gots a emergency pack in the truck, and one in my backpack.

    To avoid trouble - don't be where trouble is.

    Yeah I know - I think outside of the box a lot .
    Last edited by sm; June 17th, 2005 at 11:29 AM.
    Use Enough Gun

  12. #12
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    If I was a high speed low drag super cool operator I would immediately get out of my non-running vehicle and shoot the guy closest to me in the head, at under six feet I shouldn't miss.
    Depending on the other guy's reaction I would either take cover behind my car or his car while I was laying down cover fire. How it goes from there is anyones guess.

    NO LIGHTS + NO SIRENS + NO BADGES + GUNS DRAWN + MY MEANS OF ESCAPE CUT OFF = IT'S OBVIOUS!
    Seek safety at the heart of danger.

    Live Easy, Die Hard

  13. #13
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    guess I misunderstood. Either way, ram the blocking vehicle or better yet the BG if possible. Cars and trucks make effctive weapons. Plus a loud crash should get lots of attention, 911 called for ya.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Hmm...Since they are coming up either side of my car, they are already within 10' of me before I could determine if there is a problem. Since they are really interested in their friend who is at the payphone on the side of the building in front of my car, I'm going to let them conduct their business and leave...
    - Tom
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  15. #15
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    Since they are really interested in their friend who is at the payphone on the side of the building in front of my car,
    Where did that bit come from Tom??

    Steve - I did mention - the clerk is a friend
    Brief chat with clerk who you know
    - well, someone known, so - not BG category. For sure, this dude would have been better advised to not be shopping at this time of day with few folks around.

    Q-Ball - I think you have about the only option - which might in fact mean go down fighting. Just possibly the guy could open door and draw and engage BG #1 real quick, probably keeping low, if not actually going to ground. The biggest single factor seems to be time - lack of it!!

    If we make an assumption that the good guy was at least condition yellow, then just perhaps he might get his window down as car appears - possibly even draw too as a precaution - this would increase initial options thru time saving and greater opportunity to lean out of window for initial engagement.

    The only reason I even made this post was, following a description of something very similar from a buddy, outside of Cincinnati IIRC - except the guys who appeared did not cut off a means of escape and were not armed. They were in fact also going shopping but were briefly both approaching his car. It made him and me consider how bad things could be in the scenario I tried to paint.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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