Who should I protect?
This is a discussion on Who should I protect? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We have been down this road before. I am not, repeat, not a LEO. I carry a gun to protect myself and my family from ...
October 1st, 2007 09:58 PM
We have been down this road before. I am not, repeat, not a LEO. I carry a gun to protect myself and my family from being killed or seriously injured by a criminal predator. I would intervene to assist a stranger by using deadly force only under the most compelling circumstances. For example, I would not walk away from a gang rape or a homeless person being beaten to death. But short of that kind of unmistakable situation, I am on the phone calling 911.The consequences of making a mistake, prison for me and financial ruin for my family are simply far too onerous for me to risk.
"It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."
J. R. R. Tolkien
October 1st, 2007 10:04 PM
As others have said for the most part protect you and yours.
Having worked plain clothes, if you came upon such an arrest, it should be pretty apparent. The officer should have his badge on a lanyard and exposed at minimum. He should also be issuing loud verbal commands like, "Police, let me see your hands, on the ground, palms up, cross your legs, YOU ARE UNDER ARREST!" Also backup should be arriving ASAP also displaying badges, possible raid jackets, assault vests, flashing blue lights, radios, etc... They would certainly want to minimize the time their officer was one-on-one with a suspect.
If there is a huge size, weight, or physical disparity or if the aggressor is actively assaulting, etc. I may would intervene as I would hope you would do for what possibly may be mine or your wives or children.
Otherwise, be a good witness!
October 1st, 2007 10:21 PM
Well we all analyze the what if's and when's, I really don't think we will really know UNTIL we find our self in that very unfortunate situation.
Playing it out in your mind gives us the opportunity for "do overs" in reality, who really knows???
October 1st, 2007 10:22 PM
I'm with Ron (post 16) on this one. Any thing more than that is just hanging your donkey out too far in so many ways.
October 1st, 2007 10:49 PM
I'll stick with 'me and mine'...it would be a rare occasion when I would step outside that box...
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
October 5th, 2007 11:18 PM
I agree w/ retsupt99, I am the protector of my home & family; for me it would have to be an EXTREMELY bizarre and dangerous situation that would precipitate me to draw my firearm in defense of someone other than a family member, the consequences for my family would be too severe.
October 6th, 2007 01:47 AM
In my state the law is clear, we can only come to the defense of our "spouse, parent, child, employer, or employee." The intent is to make sure it is someone we know well and whose situation we would understand.
There are many other options before we get to using a gun. Call the cops. Yell at the bad guy that the cops are on their way. Stay on the phone so everything is recorded by 911 operator. Make noise and draw lots of attention to the crime you are witnessing, criminals hate attention. All of this will at least allow you to sleep at night knowing you did something to try an help. Worst case, the bad guy breaks off his attack and comes after you. Since you are still on the phone, Yell: Stop! Drop the ------! Stop! Don't come any closer or I will shoot! Stop! (You get the idea).
All of this will play well at your trial when you explain what you did and why. Don't try to be a Good Samaritan, Vigilante, Rambo, Barney Fife, Terminator, style hero!
October 6th, 2007 06:35 AM
Just a question on this, what are the legal consequences of NOT getting involved.
I thought I heard of situations where by-standers were sued or charged with not helping out. Good Samaritan Law, or something.
I remember how shocking the movie scene was in the original version of "The Time Machine", where the girl was screaming while drowning in a rushing river and the people of that "time" completely ignored her cries for help.
I would hope if it was my wife or daughter that was being attacked, someone would step in to help.
October 6th, 2007 11:40 AM
I think Chris said it best, "play it as you see it".
Maybe I'm just feeling a bit crochety today but I'll just say it:
I have absolutely no use for someone who will see someone else in serious trouble and do nothing.
But. . . I have no use for Captain America who runs in with guns blazing to save the day, either.
IMHO, some situations DEMAND that you act, other's require you not to act unless you are a complete idiot.
Where does that leave us?
. . . . . "play it as you see it".
This is the way I would do it: if the situation is obvious (very rare in my opinion), you act to help the innocent people.
If the situation is not obvious (99.999999% of the time) you MUST WAIT until you have a "reasonable" idea of the situation before you act. In this type of situation, you do everything you can short of lethal force, i.e. dial 911, be a good witness, etc.
That may mean some good people die before you understand the situation but, unfortunately, that's real life.
This way, I can look in the mirror each day while shaving and not want to slit my throat.
Your mileage may vary>
fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).
October 6th, 2007 07:52 PM
Keep your weapons, hands, and feet to yourself. I for one, would not like to be the idiot that stalled a lawful arrest because I was dying to be rambo. If, there is a problem, then dial 911. Also, look for signs. If the person seems to portray tactical knowledge, is using the right verbal commands, and remotely appears to be arresting, or stopping a threat to himself, then don't draw. If you draw, and the other person sees you, they might assume that you are the perpetrators ally and in turn waste YOU.
It is never a good idea to put fuel on the fire, unless YOU need to for YOUR survival. If you do not know 100% of the situation, then don't draw your gun. How would you like to be shot dead or put in a situation where you may think you have to take a fellow CCWr's life because you thought they you were saving the day.
Last edited by P991911; October 7th, 2007 at 09:30 AM.
October 7th, 2007 01:31 AM
My gun is to protect my family and myself. I did not get my carry permit and my carry gun to protect the world!
Welcome to Tennessee, the patron state of shootin' stuff.--SHOOTER
October 7th, 2007 03:28 AM
Prime example of mistaken Identity. When my dad was working on the road in New York city, he was out and about on the town one night when he saw what looked like two homeless guys beating the crap out of a "regularly dressed" guy near a street corner back up against a building in the shadows.
He just stood back watching when all of a sudden two marked patrol cars came screeching to a stop and jumped out. Now about 5 or 6 guys in the fray and the one who ended up "cuffed and stuffed" was the ordinary looking guy my dad thought was a victim. They threw him into a patrol car and sped away leaving the two "homeless" guys on the corner.
My dad being who his is... just walked up to them and asked the what the guy did? (by that time he had them pegged as undercover cops as one of them was talking on their police radio after the patrol cars left with their arrestee)
They told him that he was a rapist out on bond and they had been looking for him in connection to another rape that happened a few days ago.
He told me that it really looked to him like the two homeless guys were the criminals and probably looked that way to the rapist because he was screaming "somebody help me!"
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
October 7th, 2007 08:44 AM
I have a friend who has intervened in FIVE events where he saw a woman being physically beaten.
In every case, the woman immediately attacked HIM.
He doesn't get involved anymore.
October 7th, 2007 09:46 PM
My two cents -
Currently, it is not my responsibility to protect the general public. If they choose not to acknowledge risk, that is their personal choice. However it IS my responsibility to protect my family; I WILL do that. If I can protect your family in the process of protecting mine, I will. However, I will not sacrifice the safety of my family to protect the general public. If the fight is unavoidable I will do everything in my power to end the fight quickly and in my favor.
Will I charge to the sound of gunfire in an unknown situation, if I'm alone? That is something I will decide when it happens.
Deputy Director of Training
It is not the ability to master the extraordinary that makes a warrior special; what makes a warrior special is the ability to master the basics extraordinarily well. - (author unknown)
October 7th, 2007 09:54 PM
I've come to the conclusion that the metrics used to decide whether or not you respond to a situation are entirely personal. It's a personal decision; only you can say what your trigger point is. There are many things to consider.
Personally - I look at it like this: I have a responsibility to my family first. If I'm with family, my mission is to get them to safety and get out of the area. If I'm alone, and not confronted by an immediate threat (i.e., in my face), I still have a responsibility to my family to come home alive.
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