Heres one that happened tonight... a new one on me

This is a discussion on Heres one that happened tonight... a new one on me within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While I understand it isn't optimal, I'd probably keep my firearm low and slightly behind me, keeping it from casual view unless I got additional ...

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Thread: Heres one that happened tonight... a new one on me

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    While I understand it isn't optimal, I'd probably keep my firearm low and slightly behind me, keeping it from casual view unless I got additional indication something was wrong.

    I understand it slows you down a lot, but there is also a good chance that if someone was in the house they wouldn't be expecting you to have a firearm on your person while *entering* the house.

    -john

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bzdog View Post
    While I understand it isn't optimal, I'd probably keep my firearm low and slightly behind me, keeping it from casual view unless I got additional indication something was wrong.

    I understand it slows you down a lot, but there is also a good chance that if someone was in the house they wouldn't be expecting you to have a firearm on your person while *entering* the house.

    -john
    I did...sort of. I just modified my typical building clearing position. I kept the pistol tucked in tightly, and kept it at a 45 degree downward, as I would if a teammate was crossing in front of me.
    That way, I was still in a proper searching position, and would not sweap anything I didnt want too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Call wife on phone...if no answer, call 911 (or use radio) call for backup...
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    It's funny I mentioned a few months ago that I came home and found a bathroom screen torn off the house and a broken window and I proceeded to clear my own house. I was flamed for this action, told I should have waited for PD and let them do it as this is what they are paid for and you should never clear a house by yourself, NEVER!!! Blah Blah Blah. First of all I'm not going to wait 45 min for the cops to arrive, yes we live in a rural area and response time can be very slow. It is pitiful the lack of training that is given our Deputies. It has been a few years but back in the day I was trained properly on clearing a house and I do agree it is safer to do this with another well trained person, but I explained it was my home and I knew every knook and cranny and how to proceed safetly through the home. In my case I had been robbed but the BG was long gone. I am very glad this wasn't the case for you and I am glad that you and your family are safe. It's just funny to see the different responses from people.
    Take Care
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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    SIXTO,

    Glad it worked out well.

    Herk

  7. #21
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    Glad things worked out well for you...certainly glad it was a blond moment rather than a BG moment...

    An open door or window would only alert me if our '125# Rhodesian' was not at the exposed entry...if not, then the rules change, drastically!

    We've had no homes entered in this area...yet! There may always be a first.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCHornet View Post
    It's funny I mentioned a few months ago that I came home and found a bathroom screen torn off the house and a broken window and I proceeded to clear my own house. I was flamed for this action, told I should have waited for PD and let them do it as this is what they are paid for and you should never clear a house by yourself, NEVER!!! Blah Blah Blah. First of all I'm not going to wait 45 min for the cops to arrive, yes we live in a rural area and response time can be very slow. It is pitiful the lack of training that is given our Deputies. It has been a few years but back in the day I was trained properly on clearing a house and I do agree it is safer to do this with another well trained person, but I explained it was my home and I knew every knook and cranny and how to proceed safetly through the home. In my case I had been robbed but the BG was long gone. I am very glad this wasn't the case for you and I am glad that you and your family are safe. It's just funny to see the different responses from people.
    Take Care
    NC, the biggest difference between your case and mine is that I am an LEO. I’ve been to countless SWAT schools and trained more than even I know to do this exact thing. I do three to four search warrants a week that a home or building needs cleared.. If I called the local LEO’s to come clear my home for me, chances are I would get someone inexperianced. If I did get a skilled person, most likely I trained them. I know that sounds arrogant, but that’s just the way it is.
    If I had more indicators that something was wrong, then I would have defiantly asked for help.

    I still say that the normal homeowner should not clear his own home. There are far to many pitfalls to get caught up in. IF there is some sort of exigent circumstance, then by all means. It really needs to be looked at case by case.
    Last edited by SIXTO; October 11th, 2007 at 08:20 AM. Reason: just didnt like the way a line sounded
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #23
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    I think in this situation one should first call 911. If you don't, and you get clobbered, things can only go from bad to worse with no help in sight.

    Whether you decide to wait for the PD to arrive depends on average response time in your area. If there is no sound from inside, likely to be safe to wait for help for a short while. If help is too far away, and one is trained to clear the house, proceed with caution, preferably with cell phone still on.

    Remember, if a BG IS in the house, and is silent, the odds are against you. Think ambush.
    Seeking Knowledge, Hoping for Wisdom

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgraham View Post
    I think in this situation one should first call 911. If you don't, and you get clobbered, things can only go from bad to worse with no help in sight.
    Excellent point.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Six I do believe you found a time to fall back on the J.D. " Buck " Savage training tapes ( if your too young ask the oldest sgt you know as savage was AZ dps and had a plethora of " helpful " training advise lol ) . In all seriousness it sounds as if you did fine , not by policy( no teammate present ) but fine none the less .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  12. #26
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    He was well before my time, but I do know what your talking about, lol.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #27
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    I would not call them at all. Under no circumstances would I want my family to wake up. If there was a BG in there, the last thing you want to do is give him any warning, startle him, or wake everyone else up. The likelihood of one of the kids getting up to go to the bathroom without knowing what is going on is to great. A spouse would not, no matter what you said, hide in the bedroom with the children down the hall asleep. The risk to your family is too great. I think it would be better to clear the house quietly, but armed.

    If I was LE like the OP, I probably would have called for some backup as I cleared the house. Or made contact with an officer via cell phone to keep him apprised of what was happening.
    Its a situational thing that changes when one single fact changes.
    My wife and 20 year old son would investigate if they thought for a second something weren't right. Communication is the key here.The last thing you want is several people with guns meeting up in the middle of the hall or living room or somewhere. Therefor I would call each one. If the bad guy happened to hear it then so be it. Now he is facing the possibility of several armed folks and if he happens to step into the wrong room it wouldn't be good.
    That is why I would tell each to stay put...and move only when I say to move.

    Sure...a hired assassin might be able to kill everyone there, but since they are in such short supply and generally don't mess with everyday folks, the chances are that the local crackhead or gang banger looking for something to steal for his next fix is great and generally they don't want to be found in somebody else's house in the dark and they usually don't want a confrontation.

    Clearing houses, even your own, is a dangerous thing, but like Sixto I' ve done it more times than I can count. I might call for backup before entering, I might not. What I don't need is a radio check when I'm sneaking down the hall and I don't need the dispatcher freaking out when I turn down the radio to keep that from happening. Since backup is typically 20 minutes away...if I'm lucky, I'll probably clear the house myself.One thing I will not do is stand idly by outside when some punk is in my house and my family is in it .

    What works for me may not work for you and vice versa. There are too many variables that can change the outcome.

    With that being said, if you don't know how to clear a building then don't do it. Even with advanced training it is very dangerous and cops and soldiers alike get killed on a fairly regular basis when doing it. All of the training in the world can not prevent that. It can give you a leg up on the competition but that is no guarantee of survival.
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  14. #28
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCHornet View Post
    It's funny I mentioned a few months ago that I came home and found a bathroom screen torn off the house and a broken window and I proceeded to clear my own house. I was flamed for this action, told I should have waited for PD and let them do it as this is what they are paid for and you should never clear a house by yourself, NEVER!!!
    I would not have been one of the people who would have criticized you in that circumstance, but it doesn't sound like loved ones were inside in your case. That is a big difference. No way would I wait to see if my family was safe, my stuff is a different story.

    Remember though, the first rule of a gunfight, bring a gun, bring two guns, bring a friend with a gun (backup) bring his friends with guns.

    It is better to not be alone.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
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  15. #29
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    If I knew that my family and children were inside, I'm not waiting for backup. I'm going in.

    I might call first, but I'm not going to stand on my front porch while I suspect someone could be inside with my kids.

    I don't even have kids yet and that thought makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand STRAIGHT UP!

    I'm no expert in clearing buildings, but I have cleared my own home several times. That's not to say I'm an expert at it, I've just thought it necessary and I've done it. If watched by a trained professional I'd probably be lashed for my poor tactics, but that's the last thing on my mind.

    If I was concerned about how my children would respond to Mommy checking on them with a gun in her hand, instead of putting the gun behind my back I might drap a newspaper or magazine over it (I've done this while answering the door a couple of times) or maybe a shirt (like I was picking up laundry on my way down the hall). That way I could still have my gun at the ready position but not frighten the little ones.

    Also, yes, this would be an example of having COMPLETE target identification before acting.

    Whether it's tactically smart or not, I'd probably flip on the lights as I went. Yes, I might be giving away my position, but at least I'd be able to mistakingly identify my target if there was one.

    And that's pretty much all I have to say about that.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Also, yes, this would be an example of having COMPLETE target identification before acting.

    Whether it's tactically smart or not, I'd probably flip on the lights as I went. Yes, I might be giving away my position, but at least I'd be able to mistakingly identify my target if there was one.
    My perspective is you should have a bright light like the Surefire E2e on you at all times. Light switch may not be where you need it... And the light may not be working.

    If the E2e is too expensive, the 6P or G2 are just as bright only sacrificing size.

    -john

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