Amost drew my pistol, several people around me saw it.

This is a discussion on Amost drew my pistol, several people around me saw it. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; MitchelCT, I do believe that you just gave some of the best advice I have ever seen on this forum. To me, they all are ...

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Thread: Amost drew my pistol, several people around me saw it.

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    MitchelCT, I do believe that you just gave some of the best advice I have ever seen on this forum. To me, they all are no brainer points that any of us should no. However, after reading that through it reminds me of how many people we have here who may not think of that, newbies and "experts".

    Thank you for putting it down so plainly. That should almost be tweaked some and put into the permanent reference section.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

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  3. #17
    Member Array scott4957's Avatar
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    MitchelCT, that was one of the first pieces of advice I got when I started carrying. Though I know it won't be a problem with these guys, I'm sure the subject will come up again and I'll be sure to point that out.

    When I said mistake, I didn't mean putting my hand on my gun was a mistake, I meant blurting out what I had said was, but I was a bit shaken and mad about the situation, as someone said hind site is 20/20.

    Yes I do think not calling the police was a mistake, I don't carry a cell phone and actually asked one of the guys to call the police, no one could remember the number and I didn't really think to call it in via 911 though that was certainly justified. I thought about what could have happened after the fact, him harassing others, but an hour had gone by, I didn't think it would have been a good idea to call it in at that point. Again hind sight is 20/20 and I will know better if something like this is to happen again.

    Piglet, to answer your questions. I would say about 200 yards away, just over a block or so, he was on the block over walking up and down the street, I had just noticed him kind of pacing because he was directly in my field of vision.

    Yes, he was acting very strange, may have been on meth or something, that seems to be popular in this area. He never said a word! It happened so quickly I couldn't say anything really, I only felt he was a threat at the last second when he reached behind him, my friends knew something was up a split second after me and turned. The guy next to me that could see him coming off his right side was thinking the same thing I was and didn't say anything either, he spoke up about the same time I reached for my pistol. The guy walked directly at us, got about 50ft away when he reached behind him, in about 20 more feet he had it out and extended and when he was about 30 feet away he made a B line to his right, head turned over his shoulder still watching us. He then turned his body so he was walking backwards towards the TB never taking his eyes off us and swinging this thing around, or making hand gestures to provoke us.

    Piglet, I think you misunderstood what I was saying, when I said I felt very confident, almost cocky. I assure you there was no lack of concern when he reached behind his right hip and pulled that thing out! You didn't quote the part just prior to that about how I had been in situations like this prior, and had a dreadful feeling, scared, pit of the stomach feelings. Maybe I should have said that I didn't feel panic, I wasn't shaky or nervous. I didn't have to think to act, I just did it, which makes me feel much better knowing that I wont freeze in a situation like this. I didn't blow it off like it wasn't a big deal, I was concerned about the situation, but felt confident that I could handle it properly and not get hurt. These feelings are much unlike the ones I have had as a youth when I got jumped by a group of much larger kids, and the horrible feelings I had in my stomach every time I would have to pass a group of similar acting, sounding, looking type of people, till the day I started to arm my self. I've always been very alert, but now that I am armed, rather then having that panic feeling in my gut I can walk into the local mall at night, and pass large groups of people without getting sick to my stomach. I still watch them closely, I still think about what has happened to me in the past, but I feel confident in knowing that I can stop it from happening again.

    I appreciate everyones feed back, almost everything that was suggested was something that went through my head after the fact, good to know I am on the same page as many other CC permit holders. Thanks again guys!

    Scott

  4. #18
    Member Array Piglet's Avatar
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    scott,

    I understand entirely, and wasn't trying to pick nits even if it sounded like it.

  5. #19
    Member Array VegasSIG's Avatar
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    FWIW I think you handled yourself properly. Now the next question at what range would you have drawn your weapon?

    How do you fellas think the DA would approach this situation granted the man was armed, however they had a means of escape and there were 5 of them?

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    You did okay, but I concur you should have made a police report and for Heaven's sake avoid the blurted comment that you would have shot the guy! Somebody... maybe somebody in the group who didn't completely follow the situation exactly as it happened...could misunderstand that remark. Somewhere down the line you might have to shoot somebody (God forbid!) and that remark MIGHT be used to show a pattern of behavior that could be act to your detriment.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    The photo video part is so true

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinInstructor View Post
    Any time you draw your weapon or simply place your hand on the holstered gun consider someone you do not know saw this or you happen to be in the lens of a camera/video. With this in mind I would call the police if this was done during an attack or what simply appeared to be an attack. The rule of thumb is, if two parties call usually the second party needs to play caught up even if they are the good guy.

    It's your choice.

    Any ways good to hear all is fine and you are safe.
    Soooo true…

    Last year my wife and I witnessed a thug take a purse from a 60 plus year old lady. When I saw the struggle and the lady crying out, I hollered and walked briskly toward the guy. With purse in hand he took off running. I followed for about a block when a car almost hitting me picks up the thug, and they make a speedy depart. I returned to the lady who was robbed, called 911 and handed her the phone to report the robbery, and requested others who saw the crime stay to file a police report.

    The photo video part is so true. Sure enough the next day on the evening news, a tourist had shot multi photos of the thug and me running down the 4 lane street. Good thing I stayed to file a police report.

    Thug and his partner where arrested a couple weeks later.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Now...

    I have a question for you, Scott.

    Once you saw the look with the kung-fu weapon, do you feel that you could have told your friends "Loon with a weapon, everyone in the car NOW!", then started the car and put it in drive?

    A car is a much better weapon than a handgun.

    Nothing says stopping power like 2500 pounds of...what ever cars are made of these days... at 35 MPH.

    Hindsight, I know...but not every solution which may require a weapon to solve is one that should be solved with a firearm.

    If you can, manufacture the advantage, don't just take one available to you.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; October 16th, 2007 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Edit Language Workaround

  9. #23
    New Member Array lead_head's Avatar
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    Mitchell,
    Lets be real here. How long do you think it would take 6 guys to react, not question it, get into a car, start it and drive away? Much longer than it would take the guy weilding the pipe from less than 50 feet away!
    "A car is a much better weapon than a handgun" WHAT?

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lead_head View Post
    Mitchell,
    Lets be real here. How long do you think it would take 6 guys to react, not question it, get into a car, start it and drive away? Much longer than it would take the guy weilding the pipe from less than 50 feet away!
    "A car is a much better weapon than a handgun" WHAT?

    It depends on how well you have your friends "house broken"...

    I am quite aware that a person who decides to
    rush from a distance of 50 feet is able to close that distance rather quickly; however, a person who is standing 50 feet away is distant enough that they are not, without more, an immediate threat without a firearm or other such weapon.

    As to a car being a better weapon than a handgun...getting hit by a 2000# piece of metal at 35MPH is going to cause a lot more trauma than a 230 grain piece of metal at 800FPS.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    I would have called the police just to be on the safe side. The next innocent person this BG decides to beat on may not be as lucky or be armed. the police just might get lucky and and nab this guy if they were to get a good description

  12. #26
    Member Array Angel in San Antonio's Avatar
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    Scott, thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you very much.

    Angel

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Manufacture the advantage? YES!

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    If you can, manufacture the advantage, don't just take one available to you.
    Although I disagree with much of what you posted, THIS is a jewel of wisdom. I teach school deep in the inner city of Miami FL. I can't carry any sort of weapon inschool, nor do I desire an overt or obvious weapon. Too much temptation to the gangsta element. They're not real bright, but they are vicious. And opportunistic. Still there has been the rare occasion when I've needed to feel comforted on my long walk to the teachers parking lot. For those moments I have my avid passion for Aikido and I carry the front section of the Miami Herald rolled under my arm. That's all I need.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #28
    Member Array Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    It depends on how well you have your friends "house broken"...

    As to a car being a better weapon than a handgun...getting hit by a 2000# piece of metal at 35MPH is going to cause a lot more trauma than a 230 grain piece of metal at 800FPS.
    House broken?? Are you a cult leader or something?

    As to the second point, if you have wrangled your six friends into a car and put it into drive then it isn't a weapon, its conflict avoidance. Why in the world would you hit a guy who's greatest threat is his ability to num-chuck your fender?

  15. #29
    Member Array MnemonicMonkey's Avatar
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    OK, I just had to dust off the old physics skills here.

    Given Ek=(mv^2)/2

    A 230 gr bullet at 800 ft/s is .0149 kg @ 243m/s = 440 J

    A 2500 lb car at 35 mi/h is 1133 kg @ 16 m/s = 145,000 J

    So, a car is roughly 330 times a better weapon than a gun. Mathematically.

    You do have to account for the fact that your typical car/pedestrian collision doesn't transfer much of the car's energy since people tend to bounce off. But even with a 1% transfer, that "droF" stamp on his kneecap says he'll never walk the same again. (BTW, freight trains have much more energy and transfer it better- ask anyone who's had to pick up the pieces. Holsters are hard to find though.)

    Physics and energy aside, the more practical tool in this situation probably was your sidearm. In the time it would have taken you to jump in, crank it up, and drop the clutch, he would have closed most of that last 50'. Thankfully, your keen situational awareness took care of the situation, and neither were needed!
    "Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am."

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array afeazell21's Avatar
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    Sounds like all is well.... +1 fro peacefuljeffrey
    "Dont be afraid to go after what you want to do, and what you want to be. But don't be afraid to be willing to pay the price." - Lane Frost

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