October 19th, 2007 05:00 AM
Most definitely a tough situation. For a couple of reasons.
First, carjackings are notoriously deadly situations.
Second, they happen fast and often times come out of the blue, when you least expect them. Carjackers wait for a moment when you aren't paying attention and then strike. They usually don't strike those who are watching and waiting for it to come.
Therefore, you don't have a lot of time to sit there and try and figure out whether the person getting into your car is just a drunk, a case of mistaken vehicles or in fact a bad guy.
How many people have actually pulled their piece inside their car and tried to engage a target in the passenger seat in a training type scenario?
Assuming most shooters being right handed and carrying weapon on strong side, try pulling your unloaded gun and swing to the right to engage a target sitting in the passenger seat.
What you will find is that it is probably a somewhat awkward movement as well as putting your gun in very close proximity to the bad guy inviting a struggle for the gun. It's fairly easy for them to deflect your gun away or trap it preventing you from firing.
There are a lot of things that can go bad in attempted carjackings and unless you take the time to walk through some situations with an unloaded weapon before hand you may find yourself easily disarmed or even shot before you get a chance to fire yourself.
I have tried a few practice scenarios and a couple of points I came away with are these.
Anyone attempting to enter my vehicle, I focus on their hands to see if they have a weapon in their hand. If they are empty handed, it allows me some options.
Another option if they jump in and are seated in your passenger seat, immediately after a clear threat is identified, a massive counter strike with my closed fist or bladed hand goes straight to the trachea or to the nose. That type of strike is much quicker to deploy than going for your gun, and can be done with a margin of surprise and can be devastating.
Any type of massive strike to the BG's face or throat, done with all the force you can generate and done swiftly without hesitation, will at the very least stun them for a moment. They will feel immediate pain and or loss of breathing capability, sending their brain into chaos and putting them on the defense instead of the offense. And at the worst could crush their larynx and either knock them unconscious or kill them. If striking the face instead of the throat you'll probably break their nose immediately causing their eyes to tear up and blurr their vision.
Immediately after the fist or bladed hand to the throat or face, you can begin to exit your car and make your draw for your gun and follow up with lethal force if needed or gain space and get out of the kill zone.
The key points here is that it takes guts to engage them like that. It needs to happen without hesitation with lightning speed. And you can't pull your punches. You need to hit them hard and fast with the element of surprise.
What helps with the mustering the courage to do a counter-attack like that is knowing how the predators think. They expect you to wet your pants, scream, panic and submit. They don't expect a vicious counter-attack, otherwise, they would have picked a different victim.
The other thing is, it is always best to have a back-up plan.
Lastly, with everything, there is no gurantee you will survive the encounter. There's never a guranteee, but you do stand a better chance by having a plan and fighting back.
This is why I said the above scenario in Ron's original post is a TOUGH ONE. Hopefully if it is just a case of mistaken vehicles, it will be apparent enough and obvious that I have the where-with-all not to employ my defensive action plan.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
October 19th, 2007 07:58 AM
Hopefully my situational awareness will have noted the guy before he enters the car. Someone causally stepping in is different than someone hurriedly jumping in typically.
Honestly if someone gets that close w/o you noticing , what are the odds you will be able to react quickly to him entering the car?
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
November 16th, 2007 07:24 PM
All our vehicles all have keyless entry either by outside door panel or key chain. The first push of the unlock button or code unlocks the driver door only....the second unlocks all others. I will be sure and only push once from now on after reading yalls discussion.
November 16th, 2007 07:36 PM
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage
GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself
November 16th, 2007 07:49 PM
He'd be looking the business end of a 1911, safety off, finger on trigger
the next step is up to him...and it had better be out the door.
I'd hate to shoot someone over a mistake, but...I'd hate to die with a loaded gun in my hand.
No matter what, I'd be on the phone with 911 explaining the situation to them
"If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."
November 16th, 2007 08:28 PM
For things like this, I'm glad my last two cars have operated in this fashion: all doors lock via key fob; key fob or manually unlock driver door only; immediately lock once get into car. That means, nobody is able to get into the other doors unless I specifically unlock them.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
November 19th, 2007 03:52 PM
I always lock my car when entering or exiting the vehicle. If someone was in my car and he's not fiddling with the steering column but just sitting there, then I'm calling the police. If I just walk up and stick a gun in his face, he still thinks he's in his car and may announce a robbery and then you're not going to look very good - even if it is your car. I'm not going to escalate a situation that could be handled with calling the police. He's not going anywhere without the right key.
The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
- Winston Churchill
Endowment Life Member - NRA
Life Member - GOA
Member - Oath Keepers, SAF, CCRKBA
U.S. Army (72G) 1975-1980
November 23rd, 2007 09:46 AM
I like Bark'n's tactic of close-in fist, knife, or blunt weapon strike to break the intruder's OODA loop. I HAVE tried to draw all my carry weapons when seated in the driver's position and some are easier than others. In order of easiest to hardest: S&W 637 with 2" barrel, S&W 915 with 4" barrel, S&W 65 with 4" barrel. The snub can be out lightning quick, the long wheelgun takes some contortion, and I am not a big guy (5'9"/185).
If I am alone in the vehicle, I wish I had the presence of mind to exit as I draw or fight to create distance. However, sometimes I am not alone. The first thing that happens when the family gets in the car is that my daughter gets securely strapped into the car seat. Imagine if it's just me and her. Her seat is in the middle of my truck's (crew cab) rear seat and she is tightly buckeld in. I am in the front left corner of the cabin. There is NO way in hell I am getting out of the control position in my vehicle with an intruder and her in it. I will have to fight it out from there and prevail.
That's why I like the idea of a quick, violent physical assault and immediately going for a firearm if the intruder does not beat my reaction time as he leaves.
November 23rd, 2007 11:18 AM
Mr. "Condition White" checking in.
Some years ago I was waiting for daughter at our rural convenience market, and a very scruffy-looking 35ish fellow (unshaven, and somewhere between 'farmer' and 'homeless' in attire) walked right up and jumped into the passenger seat. Never having given much thought to defense, I immediately stuck out my right hand to shake his, and announced cheerily, "Hi!" and gave my name.
Shocked, but properly trained in the social graces, he shook my hand firmly and said, "Bill....bu..bu...WRONG D*MN CAR!!!!" and high-tailed it out of there as fast as he could.
Of course, bad things never happen up here in the hills.
OK, so I'm paying more attention now. And fewer bad things are likely to happen to me now that I'm paying attention (though I realize they might, even up here). Thanks to you all for helping me learn how to behave.
Still get a chuckle remembering his face, though. And thanks be to God that it was an innocent mistake.
November 23rd, 2007 11:30 AM
Why does everyone always assume the only use of force answer to this scenario, even if deadly force is necessary, is a handgun?
First thing I'm thinking of is that based on the description of the situation in this matter you wouldn't have time or space to draw your own handgun.
You had better be able to lay a dozen or so edge of hand/hammerfist shots onto the guy to stun him and get your ass out of the car where you can draw and cover him while he is still dazed and trapped in the vehicle. (If you fire, you are going to have to have that car detail cleaned and some bodywork done...)
Even if "violence" is the answer, the proper tool isn't always a gun. Sometimes a good, old fashioned thugging is what you need to do.
A situation that calls for deadly force...well, calls for deadly force. You can apply it with a gun or a knife, but if your don't have time to draw either you better be able to dish it out unarmed as well.
If it turns out that the guy just got into the wrong car and it wasn't a car-jacking...
November 23rd, 2007 12:37 PM
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
― Thomas Paine
November 23rd, 2007 03:27 PM
It can happen by accident. Lots of cars look the same.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
November 23rd, 2007 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by rocky
Those of us who carry are usually more aware of the peole around us, especially in the battle zone of a parking lot where there is a lot of cover for BG's.
I assess the people moving near me before I enter my car because its easier to draw while standing. I keep a 3rd handgun in my car, but when I go inside a place, I put it under the seat so it can't be seen...which means that for a few seconds after entering, it's a little difficult to get to.
I'd rather draw and fire while retreateing to the cover of other cars if I find a threat that close to me, rather than be boxed in inside my car..Limatunes said it best, point shooting is all that's needed at that range...for the BG, too.
November 23rd, 2007 06:56 PM
Remember distance is your friend, get out of the car, you have the keys. If he is a bad guy you will figure it out quickly, if he is just dumb, he will figure it out quickly.
You can get the drop on him and call 911 much easier from outside you car than inside wrestling with him.
November 23rd, 2007 08:56 PM
To all CHL persons, please be careful. My car looks like many others, and I have done exactly the same thing that that guy did. It is very embarrasing. PLEASE DON'T SHOOT ME!
Originally Posted by Ron
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