A question for LEO. What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk.

This is a discussion on A question for LEO. What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If the stars are all aligned and the situation allows you to do so-I am grateful for any type of help I can get. I ...

View Poll Results: What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk.

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  • An Officer is chasing a suspect who is crossing my path I should help stop him.

    42 34.43%
  • An Officer is chasing a suspect who is crossing my path I should get out of the way.

    26 21.31%
  • An Officer is losing a fight, over powered or out numbered, I should do what I can to help draw down if I have too. Shoot if I must to save the officer from serious injury or death

    94 77.05%
  • An Officer is losing a fight, over powered or out numbered, I should get away and call 911.

    7 5.74%
  • A perp has the drop on an police officer I should position myself to take a shot and draw on the suspect, shoot if need be.

    61 50.00%
  • A perp has the drop on an police officer get to safety and call 911.

    9 7.38%
  • An officer has been shot. Get the officer to safety and render what first aid I can. Shoot the suspect if I can.

    68 55.74%
  • An officer has been shot. I should get to safety and call 911.

    12 9.84%
  • An officer is in an ongoing shoot out. I should join in and help shoot the BG.

    2 1.64%
  • An officer is in an ongoing shoot out. I should identify myself as being armed and follow directions from the officer.

    59 48.36%
  • An officer is in an ongoing shoot out. I should get to safety and call 911.

    29 23.77%
  • None of the above I should mind my own business.

    4 3.28%
  • None of the above I should take pictures for the media

    4 3.28%
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Thread: A question for LEO. What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk.

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array sheepdog's Avatar
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    If the stars are all aligned and the situation allows you to do so-I am grateful for any type of help I can get. I stopped being superman many years ago.
    But that's just one opinion.
    What Would Gumby Do?

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by austin View Post

    Examples he gave me:

    One guy with a pistol shooting it out with 4 officers is something to watch. Two guys with AKs shooting the crap out of a lone officer is something to help with your rifle from 50-100 yards away. Active shooter in the mall is something where you might identify yourself from a distance and offer to help, but expect that the officer may tell you to get the hell out of the mall. In all cases do what you are told to do.

    But as far as a real fight, you also have to consider others' perception of your actions. They may call 911 and ID you as a BG OR the responding officers may think you are BG#2. Or even another Samaritan may shoot you under the wrong impression.
    That is some fantastic advice. I think I might borrow it in the future.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #18
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    Array HotGuns's Avatar
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    Arkansas has pretty plain language that dictates when you can help an officer. Its pretty simple, if you are ASKED by the officer to render assistance then you are covered by law and protected by the same laws that he is.

    The key here is that the officers ASKS. On that note, if I am getting whooped, I might ask anyone around to help. As already noted, it may not be the ideal thing to just jump in without some communication. Since most Officers do deal with Domestic Disputes occasionally, its not unusuall for freinds or family members of the one the Officer is trying to arrest to jump in and help their buddy.

    That can really mess things up...as you dont know if they are there to help you or whoever it is you are trying to arrest. If the Officers ASKS for help it is one thing, but just acting on your own no matter how honest or good your intentions are, can have the officer treating you as a badguy until he can prove otherwise.

    The key here is Communication. If an Officer appears to be in trouble ask if he needs help. If he does he will say so, otherwise dont. Of course if one is unconsious and cant respond, then more than likely you will be covered by various "Good Samaritan" laws. Just be aware that when backup arrives the rest of them wont know if you are a goodguy trying to help or a badguy trying to finish him off.

    There is alot to think about when "jumping" in and alot that one needs to be aware of.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHFLRLTD View Post
    Florida's "Castle Doctrine" allows me to use force - up to and including deadly force - to stop a forceable felony.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
    Never saw anything relating to forceable felony in print. Can you provide a site reference?
    I strongly recommend you read Mr. Gutmachers book
    http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/indexbook.shtml

    It spells out in plain language the black, white and unfortunate gray areas of the current laws. Both from him and another criminal defense lawyer I got the advice that under the new law things may not be a clear cut as the public thinks. If they determine, for instance, that you had any part of influencing that felony by so much as verbal misdeeds, you're toast.

    They also still recommend retreat if possible without risk. They feel there are many prosecutors looking for test cases to try the new laws. You don't want to be a test case!

    Know the law, not the rumors!


    As for coming to the aid of a uniformed officer it'd better be pretty clear he needs help and that I'm actually capable of helping. I'm to old and banged up to get in a wrestling match but I'm not going to watch an officer get trashed if he's on the losing end of a life and death struggle.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Any time a LEO is outnumbered or about to be killed or seriously injured it would be my moral obligation to come to the LEOs aide

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array Creature's Avatar
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    A person should not provide First Aid unless the person knows what they are doing. Especially if EMS is on the way.
    I most vigorously disagree!!...render the first aid! First aid is not brain surgery. Your first aid in those few minutes could very well save that person's life. Every minute counts when someone is seriously injured. Nay, every second counts! Not providing first aid because 911 has already been called and help is on the way is tantamount to negligence. First aid is first aid...even holding someone's hand can be first aid. EMS renders a bit more than just first aid.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCruisr View Post
    I strongly recommend you read Mr. Gutmachers book
    http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/indexbook.shtml

    It spells out in plain language the black, white and unfortunate gray areas of the current laws. Both from him and another criminal defense lawyer I got the advice that under the new law things may not be a clear cut as the public thinks. If they determine, for instance, that you had any part of influencing that felony by so much as verbal misdeeds, you're toast.

    They also still recommend retreat if possible without risk. They feel there are many prosecutors looking for test cases to try the new laws. You don't want to be a test case!

    Know the law, not the rumors!
    .
    +1. Know your law before you engage and might end up in Jail.

    As for the LEO assistance secenarion, I heard/read somewehere that the best thing you could do if you want to help is to approach carefully and ASK the LEO if he needs assistance and only if he says yes and ONLY following his directions.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  9. #23
    Member Array VegasSIG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by austin View Post
    I've helped once by knocking a running perp down after he was able to get away from officers after he knocked them down. I just observed them fighting then stepped in when he broke free.

    As far as use of deadly force to assist, the best advice from a LEO that I have gotten is this:

    Your first response should be to leave the area!

    If your family is with you, then you should run with them the other way and keep going. Protect them.

    If by yourself, and its a deadly fight, the best thing is to take cover, call 911 with a hands free, provide information, and let the situation develop unless the BG is right next to you and you are in immediate peril. This means he is pointing a weapon at you or running towards you with it and you cannot retreat.

    If things going south for the officers ( meaning one or more are down or they are totally pinned ), then you can get involved, but only if you clearly have the means to do so where you will not interfere with LEOs and will not place yourself in harm such as an ambush position or a very clear shot. A rifle is preferable to a pistol in most every case and you should go for it time permitting.

    Examples he gave me:

    One guy with a pistol shooting it out with 4 officers is something to watch. Two guys with AKs shooting the crap out of a lone officer is something to help with your rifle from 50-100 yards away. Active shooter in the mall is something where you might identify yourself from a distance and offer to help, but expect that the officer may tell you to get the hell out of the mall. In all cases do what you are told to do.

    But as far as a real fight, you also have to consider others' perception of your actions. They may call 911 and ID you as a BG OR the responding officers may think you are BG#2. Or even another Samaritan may shoot you under the wrong impression.
    +1 I totally agree with you. The ONLY time I would fire my weapon to protect an LEO and not have anything holding me back is; lone officer injured with a BG about to take his life.

    Example: Officer down, BG attempting to execute him/her.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigsauer View Post
    I most vigorously disagree!!...render the first aid! First aid is not brain surgery. Your first aid in those few minutes could very well save that person's life. Every minute counts when someone is seriously injured. Nay, every second counts! Not providing first aid because 911 has already been called and help is on the way is tantamount to negligence. First aid is first aid...even holding someone's hand can be first aid. EMS renders a bit more than just first aid.
    When I was ten the night before Thanksgiving there was a car crash that killed five people on our yard I watched several of them die. One lady was face down in a pool of her own blood the grown ups would not let me move her heard so she could breath I watched as the pool got bigger and the bubbles finally stopped. I have a few more skills now but pretty much the same attitude. Those grown ups were wrong. No one tried, she died
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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  11. #25
    Member Array joffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigsauer View Post
    I most vigorously disagree!!...render the first aid! First aid is not brain surgery. Your first aid in those few minutes could very well save that person's life. Every minute counts when someone is seriously injured. Nay, every second counts! Not providing first aid because 911 has already been called and help is on the way is tantamount to negligence. First aid is first aid...even holding someone's hand can be first aid. EMS renders a bit more than just first aid.
    This is what I've been taught. No matter how little you think you know anything is better than nothing. Whatever you do it's hard to make things worse.

  12. #26
    Member Array RioShooter's Avatar
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    I would not get involved in a chase or apprehension. But if I saw an officer's life was in danger I would get involved.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    One correction. A person should not provide First Aid unless the person knows what they are doing. Especially if EMS is on the way.
    Your intentions might be good but, do not render Emergency First Aid if there is a likely possibility that you may do more physical harm than good to the injured individual through ignorance.
    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
    If you are not qualified to perform First Aid then you should provide aid and support in the way of verbal comfort and try to passively keep the victim alert and talking.
    Wrong, Most (notice I said most) states have a good samaritan law, you can't and will not be held responsible for any results of rendering aid.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    If the stars are all aligned and the situation allows you to do so-I am grateful for any type of help I can get. I stopped being superman many years ago.
    But that's just one opinion.

    Most cops I know feel this way, they want help if needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    Any time a LEO is outnumbered or about to be killed or seriously injured it would be my moral obligation to come to the LEOs aide

    Not sure about getting involved if some one's life is not in danger but if it's a life or death situation I WILL try to render any assistance the LEO wants/needs.

  14. #28
    New Member Array abomb60's Avatar
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    I don't think i have ever seen this many options in a poll :)

  15. #29
    Member Array Manan's Avatar
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    Everyone in every previous post is correct. For what they would do. How I would react in each situation as a 21 yr cop would be different than how I would expect a 21 year old to react.

    The ultimate goal is for everybody to go home safely. You, the Cop, and even the bad guy if possible.

    Decisions made in the blink of an eye will be discussed, argued and armchair quarterbacked for years.

    Shooting someone may be the end for them. But it's just the beginning for you.
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  16. #30
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    There are just too many variables in real life that simply cannot be covered in a discussion forum poll. That said, you are best to use your own discretion and be prepared to take whatever lumps come your way.

    As for the Fist Aid thing goes, and not to sound like one more wolf jumping on fresh meat, applying pressure to bleeding is not brain surgery. It isn't like you are trying to remove the bullet and stitch the wound. I carry a first aid kit, not a trauma bag.
    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair

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