A question for LEO. What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk.

A question for LEO. What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk.

This is a discussion on A question for LEO. What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been thinking about how to post this, To many different scenarios with to many variables. Tried to cover a few basics please expound ...

View Poll Results: What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk.

Voters
122. You may not vote on this poll
  • An Officer is chasing a suspect who is crossing my path I should help stop him.

    42 34.43%
  • An Officer is chasing a suspect who is crossing my path I should get out of the way.

    26 21.31%
  • An Officer is losing a fight, over powered or out numbered, I should do what I can to help draw down if I have too. Shoot if I must to save the officer from serious injury or death

    94 77.05%
  • An Officer is losing a fight, over powered or out numbered, I should get away and call 911.

    7 5.74%
  • A perp has the drop on an police officer I should position myself to take a shot and draw on the suspect, shoot if need be.

    61 50.00%
  • A perp has the drop on an police officer get to safety and call 911.

    9 7.38%
  • An officer has been shot. Get the officer to safety and render what first aid I can. Shoot the suspect if I can.

    68 55.74%
  • An officer has been shot. I should get to safety and call 911.

    12 9.84%
  • An officer is in an ongoing shoot out. I should join in and help shoot the BG.

    2 1.64%
  • An officer is in an ongoing shoot out. I should identify myself as being armed and follow directions from the officer.

    59 48.36%
  • An officer is in an ongoing shoot out. I should get to safety and call 911.

    29 23.77%
  • None of the above I should mind my own business.

    4 3.28%
  • None of the above I should take pictures for the media

    4 3.28%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: A question for LEO. What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    A question for LEO. What to do if I am there when an officer is at risk.

    I have been thinking about how to post this, To many different scenarios with to many variables. Tried to cover a few basics please expound on any or present any new scenarios or variables. Really would like to have a general idea of what LEO would want to happen if an armed citizens is around when they are on the short end of the stick.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family


  2. #2
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    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    One correction. A person should not provide First Aid unless the person knows what they are doing. Especially if EMS is on the way.
    Your intentions might be good but, do not render Emergency First Aid if there is a likely possibility that you may do more physical harm than good to the injured individual through ignorance.
    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
    If you are not qualified to perform First Aid then you should provide aid and support in the way of verbal comfort and try to passively keep the victim alert and talking.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I'm an LEO and I will help a fellow Officer, no matter what our personal differences are, within the boundries set forth by the law and and the courts.

    With that being said, make sure you identify yourself prior to "jumping in". If not, it's a great way to get shot. I did not vote in your poll because situations are fluid and dynamic, thus constantly changing. One has to be able to adapt to the changes to survive.

    How do you know that the person that you assume the LEO is chasing is not a "plainclothes" LEO and the suspect is out of your view? Do you think the LEO's are going to take kindly to you having stopped one of them? Unless you know ALL the players and witness an event taking place from the beginning, you are best being a witness and providing information.

    With that said, if I see a Uniformed Officer in a "struggle" with a "non-uniformed" person I would have no problems assisting in applying stainless steel bracelets. As far as shooting, you better make sure who all the players are and you had better be RIGHT. There are no "Do Overs" in real life. Then you better make sure you don't get shot by the Officer or his responding co-workers.

    It's a double edged sword and the point is very sharp.

    Biker

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    I agree 100% with BikerRN. In my personal opinion a LEO is no different than any other civilian, from the standpoint if they need help you bet I am going to help, that is just my personality. However as Biker said polls like this are not really valid because there are endless variables that can change a situation drastically. Before you intervene in a situation you better be 100% positive the LEO knows you are a good guy trying to help. Around these parts where all the cruisers are only occupied by one LEO and back-up response time can be very slow the possibility of a LEO needing help is increased, but as I said the LEO better understand you are there to help.
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  5. #5
    Member Array CelticWolf's Avatar
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    Don't do anything stupid. A LEO doesn't need to have you on his/her conscience for the rest of their lives.
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about seeking whom he may devour. 1 Peter 5:8


    http://groups.myspace.com/Concealedcarry

  6. #6
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    Yup...endless variables and a changing fluid environment....better be sure of what your doing...maybe the best thing you can do is nothing,but be a good witness...

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    hard to say. you would want to help as best as you can,but just
    like what biker rn said, you never know what might actually be
    happening.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Having served once as an auxiliary LEO, and later in life as a Federal advisor, and I can tell you that BikerRN is totally right. NEVER ever presume anything. Sure I would help a uniformed officer, who was getting the crap beat out of him, but I would not shoot, instead I would just kick or subdue the BG that was assaulting the uniformed officer.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    In any situation you should always identify yourself to the officer, follow their directives and render assistance where ever possible.

    N I disagree any first aid bad or otherwise is better than none at all. No action and they die, you act and they die, the individual is already in a life threatening situation, simply attempting to stop bleeding by applying pressure to a wound can save a life.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  10. #10
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    If he is chasing someone he is not in danger, trip the guy if want but what if that guy is an undercover and you missed the actual bad guy run by?
    If the officer is in an ongoing shoot out why are you not getting to cover, if you start shooting how is he to know who you are GG, BG?
    The last thing he wants is to stop and talk to you, call him some help.

  11. #11
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    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I voted all PRO helping an officer in trouble.
    My basic mindset would always be to help an LEO that is in dire straights if it is at all possible.

    That being said (and as mentioned above) by other members who are 100% correct ~ everything is not always so simple or so Black & White or as Cut & Dry as these scenarios are presented.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  12. #12
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    I agree with BikerRN too. It a very dynamic question, and impossible to answer ahead of time. As an LEO, the situation would have to be very dire for me to want help from a non LEO.

    I have been "helped" before from good sam's, and each and everytime they where more of a hinderance than a help. Granted, none were life threatning but if you dont know what you are doing, you are getting in the way.

    I've had good sam's screw up K9 tracks, evidence and entire cases just because they wanted to help, but had no idea what they were doing.

    One story I have to share points a few things out;

    A couple of holiday seasons ago, I was working a detail (overtime) in one of the busiest shopping malls in the country. We got word that a hispanic gang member wanted for a murder was going to be at the mall. This guy cut the throat of a rival gang member in a bar a few weeks prior. Not a nice guy.

    Of course, being the **** magnet I am, I end up finding the guy. Now, its Christmas time in a shopping mall- Crowded is an understatement. I dont want any gun play, so I have to change tactics.
    Long story short, I blindside the guy and tackle him in the food court. He has a knife on him, so I just pin him to the floor with the knife and his hands pinned under him. I intend on just holding him there until other officers arrive so we can safely disarm and take him into custody.

    Two good sams come to my "rescue" and start pulling the guys hands out from under him. I had to divert attention from the bag guy to the good guys and shove them away too. Luckily, other officers got there quick, and we were able to regain control with no loss.

    Once the good sams saw and knew what they got themselves into, they understood my actions towards them and even apologized for trying to help.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Agreed with the intent all of the above. Just asking the question is hard because of all the possible variables. Maybe a poll was the wrong approach. Space is limited so of course the poll questions are vague and general. Maybe some assumptions need to be made, that I am not a complete idiot. Have some degree of awareness. Understand the concept of consequences, even unintended ones. Have experience, in conflict and on the street. Have a grasp of proper procedure (not LEO) identify players, identify self when possible, follow directions. Know my limits, so not offering to do what I am unable to do. Not all the way out in left field not suggesting that I or anyone jump in guns blazing playing movie hero. If I were to assist in a stop yes I would KNOW it is the BG he is running away with a knife has blood all over him the Officer is telling at him to stop. Yes I know more than a bit of first aid. Of course I would be going for cover if shots are being fired, yes I would call for help if time and circumstances allowed. No I do not want the Officer to shoot me he would know I was not a BG before I engaged unless I had a clean safe shot and cover from the officer (so he could not shoot me by mistake). Yes, police are human beings deserving of support & aid. Assume common sense as a given. I know not a safe assumption these days but the only way I can think of to minimize the well if you are a moron responses. Again thanks for the responses. Please let me know if you are your LEO since I am looking for LEO insight on this. You are the guys who know what you would want
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  14. #14
    Member Array austin's Avatar
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    I've helped once by knocking a running perp down after he was able to get away from officers after he knocked them down. I just observed them fighting then stepped in when he broke free.

    As far as use of deadly force to assist, the best advice from a LEO that I have gotten is this:

    Your first response should be to leave the area!

    If your family is with you, then you should run with them the other way and keep going. Protect them.

    If by yourself, and its a deadly fight, the best thing is to take cover, call 911 with a hands free, provide information, and let the situation develop unless the BG is right next to you and you are in immediate peril. This means he is pointing a weapon at you or running towards you with it and you cannot retreat.

    If things going south for the officers ( meaning one or more are down or they are totally pinned ), then you can get involved, but only if you clearly have the means to do so where you will not interfere with LEOs and will not place yourself in harm such as an ambush position or a very clear shot. A rifle is preferable to a pistol in most every case and you should go for it time permitting.

    Examples he gave me:

    One guy with a pistol shooting it out with 4 officers is something to watch. Two guys with AKs shooting the crap out of a lone officer is something to help with your rifle from 50-100 yards away. Active shooter in the mall is something where you might identify yourself from a distance and offer to help, but expect that the officer may tell you to get the hell out of the mall. In all cases do what you are told to do.

    But as far as a real fight, you also have to consider others' perception of your actions. They may call 911 and ID you as a BG OR the responding officers may think you are BG#2. Or even another Samaritan may shoot you under the wrong impression.

  15. #15
    Member Array GHFLRLTD's Avatar
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    Remember - I Live in Florida

    Florida's "Castle Doctrine" allows me to use force - up to and including deadly force - to stop a forceable felony.
    George H. Foster
    Orlando, Florida

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