Family was under fire today! - Page 2

Family was under fire today!

This is a discussion on Family was under fire today! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The answer was to Escape and Evade. For those that say fire back I would seriously review the 4 rules again especially #4 Know your ...

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Thread: Family was under fire today!

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    The answer was to Escape and Evade. For those that say fire back I would seriously review the 4 rules again especially #4

    Know your target, what the projectile (ammunition) can do, what's between you and your target, and what is beyond.

    What makes you any better when you just go shooting in the blind as well.

    2 wrongs don't make it right.
    The second string of incoming was assault with a deadly weapon and possibly with intent, this ain't target shooting or hunting it is combat; in the Marines we called it "recon by fire", works pretty good too.

    Many years ago a buddy and I use to swim in some abandoned quarries; it was a well used series of holes for swimming. One day we had a few rounds hit the water, we hollered that there were people swimming there; all we got in response was a few more rounds coming our way and an expletive. We knew there was about 100 foot wall beyond where the rounds were coming from; 1-15 round mag each from our M-1 carbines sure put an end to that.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; October 23rd, 2007 at 12:53 AM. Reason: Edited Language Workaround


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Tough one. If I my family was under decent cover, I think I'd likely flank and approach rather than fire back from where I was. Especially if I only had my pistol, one would have to get in a very superior position to be successful.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Not knowing the area and its rules I can say this; they were warned they were endangerring human lives by firing the direction they were. When they continued to do so they willfully endangerred you and your family.

    Insist on pressing charges. Insist on copies of the reports.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    I for one thing you did everything right. As regard to returning fire, without knowing a target you become just as reckless as the intruders. And you always have to consider “Murphy’s Law”. What if some passerby happen to be in-between you and got shot.

    I would fallow up with the local LEO’s and find out what action was taken. If none, I would file a report with the state attorney general’s office.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    I would have flanked them and shot them.

    Austin
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  6. #21
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    I'm seeking cover or leaving...yep, pulling up stakes and leaving. Any other action would be foolish. I'm certainly not returning fire into something/someone who does not have me 'cornered'.

    I think I would have been a little more insistent with 911...so it would be on the record...the second call to 911 would have been a little more desperate about being shot 'at'...it's not so much WHAT you say as HOW you say it...

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  7. #22
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    Personally, I think you guys handled things fairly well, all things considered.

    When I lived in the country, it was not illegal to shoot on ones property as in most rural county area's. Most people tend to be fairly courteous. When I shot on my property or my friends, I always shot into a dirt berm or in places that were designated with good back stop. Since I only had 60 acres but had a decent bermed backstop, and my shooting sessions would entail shooting more than 400-500 rounds, I would usually call my neighbors and tell them when I was going to be shooting on my property.

    In this case, we do not know whether they were firing in your direction or if their rounds were riccochets. As we all know, dead is dead, and it really doesn't matter if the bullet that kills you or a loved one was a riccochet or directly fired at you.

    One thing I learned living in the country was that people can be down right weird and or just plain stupid.

    Another thing I learned is that some people take great offense at being chastised or challenged for doing something stupid like shooting in your direction or not knowing where the bullets or landing. And some people even shoot while drinking!

    I view all people who shoot in the rural area's with extreme caution. If I am getting incoming riccochets, I'm going to hunker down behind cover and call the cops like the OP did. I would also just leave the area if safe to do so.

    I may try to flank around them and recon to see if they are intentionally shooting in your direction or if you are just getting riccochets.

    In any case, I certainly wouldn't engage them with gunfire unless they were directly threatening me or trying to engage me or my group.

    Once, a neighbor of mine who had a beef with me told another neighbor that I had shot the other neighbors dog. Totally not true, but over the next couple months, I found one of my dogs shot and two others went MIA, (presumed to have been shot).

    The second neighbor never admitted to shooting my dogs, but I did make it clear to him that I did not shoot his dog and he finally learned that the guy who told him I killed his dog was the one who actually killed it.

    People are weird, and when they have guns, it's best to tread lightly in my experience. Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lay than risk starting a feud with your neighbors. Talk to the sheriff and see what his take on things are.

    I know where I used to live, people have pissed off neighbors and come home from work to find the fire trucks out front rolling hose and what was left of their home smoldering.
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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Many years ago a buddy and I use to swim in some abandoned quarries; it was a well used series of holes for swimming. One day we had a few rounds hit the water, we hollered that there were people swimming there; all we got in response was a few more rounds coming our way and an expletive. We knew there was about 100 foot wall beyond where the rounds were coming from; 1-15 round mag each from our M-1 carbines sure put an end to that.
    First, the 10 30-rounders in your camper... now this.

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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWINNC View Post
    The answer was to Escape and Evade. For those that say fire back I would seriously review the 4 rules again especially #4

    Know your target, what the projectile (ammunition) can do, what's between you and your target, and what is beyond.

    What makes you any better when you just go shooting in the blind as well.

    2 wrongs don't make it right.
    You've made 2 assumptions here that might not always work out for you. 1) that it is even POSSIBLE to escape and evade. If there's a hillside or berm behind you and they're shooting from ahead of you...you can't exactly backup and run without exposing yourself to direct incoming fire. 2) that you would be shooting blind. If you're in a situation where you can't fall back, your only option is to sit tight or move forward and attack. Attacking from your current position in this situation, yes, you are correct as it would be shooting blind. That's why I advocate moving in and going on the offensive IF you can't escape/evade.

    In reality in this particular situation, you only have so many options available to you:
    1) Escape and Evade (this should be the biggest priority).
    2) Sit tight and hope they stop shooting, then refer back to Option #1.
    3) Sit tight and fire back blindly (which isn't really an option).
    4) IF Option #1 doesn't work or can't due to any number of variables, Change from defensive to offensive and move forward into attack IF the situation allows.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    1) Escape and Evade (this should be the biggest priority).
    3) Sit tight and fire back blindly (which isn't really an option).
    No 1 is a given, No 3 on the other hand one round from the .416 Remington Mag would convince them of their folly, with a 400 grain round at close to 3,000 FPS that cuts though small trees like a chain saw without much deflection, which is my primary take along riffle. Did I say I like extreme fire power for Bear?
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  11. #26
    Member Array VegasSIG's Avatar
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    A few rounds of lovely 40mm HEI would have done trick in getting rid of the 2 legged varmint. Not hitting them but scaring the the poop out of em.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Sad that you can't even take the family out camping without almost being shot. Please keep us advised on the outcome of this. I really hope that Daryll and Daryll get more than a slap on the wrist.

  13. #28
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aus7
    I would have flanked them and shot them.

    Austin
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    That is what would have happened. Maybe these guys will have to face the music, but shooting them would have changed the situation from stupidity on their part to a premeditated killing by the poster. Anyone who doesn't realise that is probably too young or ignorant to be carrying.

  14. #29
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    Can anyone tell me how close the rounds really have to be to hear them wizzing by?
    A few feet.
    You did the right thing taking cover and calling the police.
    For the key board warriors that would have shot back, your life would not be fun any more if the police got got a report of it.

  15. #30
    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    This is the second kind of situation I've considered which might have been handled well by wasting a couple of rounds. A .22 is a fairly noiseless round, especially from a rifle. They were the only people firing.

    May I offer (not suggest) that there was one other possible course of action. Since you had reloads available, fire three shots into the ground but aimed so that the muzzle flash is visible and the report is audible in the direction of the threat. The fire should be from as far abeam your actual family position as you could safely get to each side (so as to appear a larger force and not to show the location of high value assets). The first and third shot by your brother from the .22, to show that your 'side' is armed. The second shot from your carry, to show that you were armed with something bigger than just a .22! Timing is important: two seconds between first and second, one second between second and third. The idea is to create the impression that your whole family is armed and fighting.

    Not firing blind in anyone's direction, firing into the dirt -- but they don't know that!

    At night, the flash and report of a decent-sized handgun can send scurry energy into a punk with a .22

    If evasion and escape are not immediate options and attack is stupidly risky, maybe trying deterrence would make sense? The only real disadvantage is the loss of hearing after your carry goes off, so tell the family to hold their ears and us spare rounds as earplugs for your own protection.

    I can't advocate deterrence when escape or assault are reasonable options, but sometimes it may be better than waiting while being a target.

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