To be or Not to be a Witness. . .

To be or Not to be a Witness. . .

This is a discussion on To be or Not to be a Witness. . . within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; . . . that is the question. My brother lives in West Virginia. When he got home yesterday there was a substantial police presence about ...

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Thread: To be or Not to be a Witness. . .

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    To be or Not to be a Witness. . .

    . . . that is the question.

    My brother lives in West Virginia. When he got home yesterday there was a substantial police presence about a block away from his house.

    He went to check it out and found out that only 10 minutes earlier a gun fight ocurred between guys in a car and someone in an apartment complex.

    It turns out to be a drug related fight and about 30 rounds were fired but the police found no evidence that anyone was hit.

    The shooters and all witnesses seemed to have faded away.

    While watching the scene, my brother talked to some neighbors who said that the car involved in the shooting drove by several times while the police were there.

    He asked what the police said when they told them and the response was, "I have to live here; I ain't talking to the police."

    In fact several citizens told him the same thing. He then said that he thinks they have a duty to tell the LEO's but they held firm.

    Then a couple of them said that they would give my brother a description of the car and occupants if he wants to inform the cops.

    He agreed, got the description and when he approached the cops, a lady was already giving the same information to the cops.

    I agree with him that we have to stand up to the trash in our neighborhoods. It surprises me that people are willing to put up with this stuff.

    On a side note, I asked him what he would have done if he had been present when the gun fight started.

    He said that he would have gotten to cover, watched the event while hoping the druggies would kill each other off, then relate the situation to the police when possible.

    I'd say he has his head screwed on right!
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    There are a lot of crimes solved by anonymous tips. And quite often, once LEO is pointed in the right direction, the case will make itself and you will never need to testify. But I carry a gun to protect my family. And getting in the middle of a drug-related shooting might put them in harm's way. While I hate to do nothing and let evil prevail, family comes first.

    Never pass up a good opportunity to shut up.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    "The only way evil can prevail is for a good man to do nothing."

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    I would be willing to bet the same people who wouldn't point out the criminals also complain that the police don't do anything about the problem...

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array Creature's Avatar
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    Never pass up a good opportunity to shut up.
    In the end, we will remember not the words (or actions) of our enemies, but the silence (and inaction) of our friends. -Martin Luther King Jr.

    What kind of example are you setting for your children to see in your unwillingness to get involved by being a witness and helping the police?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    Fear imprisons more people than any legal system. What good is it to live in a neighborhood always being afraid? I say if you witness something, or have information, speak out.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    "I have to live here; I ain't talking to the police."
    While i understand folk's concerns on being seen as a " snitch " or dealing with the " popo " ( or whatever term is used nowdays ) the fact is that police always have been and always will be reactive in nature . When you call they will show up as promptly as they can , take reports , and diligently investigate the offense you called over . If you want to improve where you live you either take the law into your own hands ( not a real good idea ) or you talk to them when they show up . The sole other choice is time honored oO( it being shut up and whine because " them cops didn't do Squat " ) but does not address the problems . Your question is easily answered for anyone . Talk to the cops after the fact and they will do everything they can to resolve any issue . Take the law into your own hands and be prepared to pay the price . Where i live it happens to be a combination of both since the public at large , and the officers all agree that some folks benifit from a good butt whippin . Things dont tend to get far out of hand here , unless and untill they get real out of hand .
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; October 23rd, 2007 at 12:47 AM. Reason: Edited Language Workaround
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

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  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    I can understand the fear of retribution for talking to the cops. But that's what anonymous hotlines are for. Or call 911, tell them you have information for the officer outside, but you are afraid for your life and don't want to be seen talking to him. I'm sure a patch-thru or later interview could be arranged.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Your either one of them or one of us. The scum loves the "don't snitch attitude." They are dirt, actually several layers lower, and don't deserve the air they consume.
    Les Baer 45
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    You are either part of the problem, or you are part of the solution.

    Can anyone show me anywhere in the history of the world that evil went away because people ignored and tolerated the evil doers???
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    I had a case in my office about a police brutality incident in which both my client (the guy with his arm in a cast) and internal affairs tried to find witnesses to the incident.

    It ended up being a case of "I didn't see nothing..." when it came to the people who were around.

    It wasn't because people were afraid of retribution or the police coming to hurt them.

    It was because they were afraid if they complained the police wouldn't show anymore in their area, and if someone has to get the stuffing beat out of them every so often, it was the price of having the police respond to calls.

    That makes me think, if they are willing to accept abuse of authority (or what they view as an abuse of authority...What happened in that incident is still unknown...) then what else are they willing to live with?

    It turns out, quite a lot.

    I don't like the "snitches get stitches" mentality, but the reality is that people do have to live in those areas, and if the price of living in that area and not becoming a target yourself is to say "I didn't see anything, I was too busy getting away from the shooting..." then that's what they may have to do.

    Its not nice.

    Its not "good".

    However, it is what it is: a survival tactic.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; October 23rd, 2007 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Edited Language Workaround

  12. #12
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    Drug related fight----- Just hope both sides have enough ammo to finish the job.


    Z

  13. #13
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    I can certainly understand how people are scared to talk to police on the street. In a lot of drug or gang areas, retribution is a real threat and issue. People can and do become victims of having their house fire bombed or being beat up or shot.

    However there are ways around to help the police. These days, everyone has a cell phone.

    One thing a person could do is to call 911 and tell the operator that you have information regarding the crime at that location but are afraid to talk to the police in public and ask them to have one of the officers on the scene call you on your cell phone.

    No one would even make the connection that you were talking to one of the officers on the scene while you're standing on the corner 30 feet away.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    I would be willing to bet the same people who wouldn't point out the criminals also complain that the police don't do anything about the problem...
    That's exactly what goes on here in West Palm Beach and nearby.

    And we have this guy Rev. Thomas Masters who always shows up to say that it's a thing where the police and the city commission don't care about the black neighborhoods/citizens.

    And every time--without fail--there is a shooting in one of these neighborhoods, the papers report the statements of frustration made by the police, detailing how the witnesses are utterly uncooperative.

    My feeling is, GOOD, let your kids grow up in a neighborhood where bullets fly and the cops can't catch anyone because YOU won't speak up and fight back, even anonymously. Reap the whirlwind!

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I can certainly understand how people are scared to talk to police on the street. In a lot of drug or gang areas, retribution is a real threat and issue. People can and do become victims of having their house fire bombed or being beat up or shot.
    Google "Norman Borden".

    He lives in Palm Beach County. He was being harassed, and his life threatened, by some hispanic gang members in a Jeep Cherokee last year some time.

    He fired on the Jeep as it came toward him, and ended up killing two of the three occupants. Despite Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, he was brought to trial (murder? manslaughter? I forgot which) and ended up being ACQUITTED. (And there was much rejoicing!)

    But before his trial even began, some of the gang members went and firebombed his house.

    One of them (shows you what morons they are) got himself SEVERELY BURNED in the process of torching a goodguy's house! Hahahahaa! He had burns on like 70% of his body or something. Critically injured; still all kinds of messed up, AND, facing felony arson charges!!

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