Boy walking home

This is a discussion on Boy walking home within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.oregonlive.com/washington..._washingt.html Boy walking home from Washington County MAX station savagely attacked, hospitalized with fractured skull by The Oregonian Tuesday October 23, 2007, 1:45 PM Washington ...

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  • Excellent bystander/witness

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Thread: Boy walking home

  1. #1
    Member Array Gunner69's Avatar
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    Boy walking home

    http://www.oregonlive.com/washington..._washingt.html

    Boy walking home from Washington County MAX station savagely attacked, hospitalized with fractured skull
    by The Oregonian
    Tuesday October 23, 2007, 1:45 PM



    Washington County authorities say a boy was attacked by an older teen Monday night as he and a friend walked home from the Quatama MAX station.


    The two boys are 12 and 13; one suffered a fractured skull after he was struck by a heavy metal object. Police this morning speculated that the weapon was a tire iron or a hammer. The other child was not hurt.

    The suspects remain at large. Police said police dogs were not able to track them.

    After his friend was struck, the other boy ran to a nearby home and called 9-1-1. Deputies arrived to find the victim south of the MAX station along the path they were using to get home.

    Police said they are looking for three suspects in their late teens. The boys told police that the suspects said something to them and when they didn't respond, one of the suspects lifted his shirt and displayed a large knife that was tucked in his waistband. Meanwhile, another suspect struck one of the boys in the head with the metal object.

    The child is being treated at a local hospital.

    Anyone with information about the case is asked to contact Washington County detectives at 503-846-2500.
    Scary part here is that station is 2 blocks from my house and I was on my way home from the staion not more than 15 mins earlier that evening... Was definitely another one of those how would you react if you saw it happening type of things..

    Part of me says dial 911 and observe until the police arrive... The sheepdog in me say get some light on them get em on the ground and render aid to the victims...
    The 6 P's
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  3. #2
    Member Array broknindarkagain's Avatar
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    I would defiantly get involved. Getting hit in the head with a metal bar or hammer can kill you pretty easily, especially if you're young.

    I would have definatly taken this as a threat to life (of the kid being attacked). Just letting the hoodlums know of your presence would probably scare them away. If not, the presence of a firearm will. I would detain one of them until police arrived if I had a set of cuffs on me at the time...And I would obviously render aid to the victim.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

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  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Shoot / No-Shoot situations are bad enough. When the BG is a kid, it gets worse. Uhg.. But then again, if you're old enough to do things like that...
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    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Very tough call......with kids that young I'd almost have to jump in if a similar incident unfolded in front of me. I doubt I would draw my sidearm unless a knife and/or tire iron came into play. I've witnessed kids "going at" each other and it seems they are no longer intrested in "whooping butt"...... bullies seem to want to injure.
    ANYONE swinging a knife or tire iron at me will certinally be endangering themselves. Reguardless, 911 will be called.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  6. #5
    Senior Member Array cmidkiff's Avatar
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    Two younger boys being attacked by 3 older teens, armed with knives and a tire iron? Not jumping into this situation could very well leave you with a dead child on your hands.

    Dial 911
    Command they stop immediately
    Deal with it from there...

    I couldn't stand by and watch a kid being beaten to death by a guy with a tire iron.
    Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. It's worth it.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    That's just around the corner from where I live. Fairly frequently, I see young toughs in small groups hopping from station to station. Have been accosted by a young weenie-in-training, myself, as his cohorts looked on.

    The Wa.County police has confirmed that many gang folks use the Max train to get around, particularly since there is light-to-no enforcement of the ticketing to ride. Lots of folks have been mugged or attacked within spitting distance of the stations.

    You never know where such a thing can occur. It can be in your own neighborhood, in the park, walking home along your street.

    What would I do? If only a few houdlums, armed or not, if this happened right in front of me I think I would have to see it stopped. That said, frequently far larger groups congregate. Just a couple months back, fifty thugs were mixing it up at a station about 10mi east of here, along the same line. Fifty. I don't care who you are, but if you pull a weapon to defend someone else in that situation, and you're armed with only a spare magazine or two, you're in a situation with only one likely ending. And that would make no sense. Short of that, if happening right in front of me, I think I would act.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    I believe that this is a perfect example of the get involved/don't get involved delimna.

    I voted sheepdog??? but that doesn't necessarily mean that I would be using a gun.

    If when I saw things, the attack appears to have ceased, I would probably just dial 911 and give the best description I could.

    If one of the "late teens" (as in 17, 18 or 19 years old, maybe?) was still attacking the 12 year old with a tire iron, I would at least shout for him to stop while moving toward him.

    If he stopped, fine. If not, well. . . I don't think I could face the mirror in the morning if I just watched a child being beaten to death.

    To me, this situation is one that is nice to speculate about but you hope to God you never come across.

    I guess it is possible that after you use lethal force to stop the older teen, you discover that the 12 year old just slit the throat of the older teen's sister.

    But, I've said it before and believe it now, life isn't fair and you never get 100% of the information you need to make any decisions.

    You simply do the best you can at the time.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    How can you just stand there and watch someone getting beaten with a metal object (tire iron, hammer, etc.)? How can you just stand there and let three older, bigger teens "whup up" on a couple of younger, smaller teens?

    The first handgun I bought, I bought because I lived next door to a house full of college guys. One Friday night, five or six other guys with baseball bats and a tire iron followed one of the college guys home from a bar, and commenced to beat the crap out of one of the college guys and one of his room-mates that happened to be home. As soon as I heard the ruckus, I called 9-1-1, tried to get the license tag of the car, and tried to be a good witness... By the time I got off of the phone, the bad guys had high-tailed it out of there, and there were two seriously wounded young men lying on the ground. I went out and did what first aid I could, and waited for the cops. And waited. And waited...

    The ambulance I called arrived in 10 minutes, and they treated the college guys until the cops arrived. 25 minutes later, when the cops arrived, they took the kid and his roomie to the hospital. They both survived, but they were beaten pretty badly in the 3-4 minutes that the attack lasted.

    The next day, I bought my first handgun... I'm never going to just stand by while someone is beaten again.
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    I would run toward the scene, hollering, and hope they broke off the attack and ran, allowing me to be a good little witness. However, if they did not, or turned to attack me, we would have a very different outcome.

    While doing this might subject me to some physical or legal dangers, sometimes you can't just 'be a witness'.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    I have to say get involved. In a more general, you don't know the details of the situation, and who's really the aggressor, but in the case of 3 older kids armed with deadly weapons and actively beating one younger (and assumably smaller) kid, it's less likely that anything complicated is going on.

    I doubt I would fire at any of them, unless they turned and attacked me, but I don't think I could just stand across the street tallying up the number of brain splatters for the 911 dispatcher. Very good chance they will scatter as soon as I make myself known, and it may just save a life.

    Legal question: Coming to the aid of another who could lawfully defend himself can't be considered to make me "the aggressor" if the attacker turns and attacks ("defends" against) me... right?
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
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  12. #11
    Member Array CCWINNC's Avatar
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    Hold the phone..So far everyone posted has said they would step in to the situation in some manner. As of right now there are 7 people that have voted witness/bystander. I want to hear their opinions on why they chose that.
    CCWINNC

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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I'm not sure wheather I would draw or not. I do know I would want to help. would I be willing to risk going to jail for someone elses kid?
    I dont know the answer to that.
    If it was a kid that was dear to me, yes I woudl do whatever it took without regard to my own well being.
    That said I am disabled because of severe back injury so that would make scuffling with the punks out of the question.

    Michael

  14. #13
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    Sounds like an armed felony in progress.

    I'd have to step in.
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  15. #14
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Not at all hard for me. If the lil sociopath was swinging a deadly weapon at a child my responce would be stop BANG. He would have the time it takes to pull up the pre-travel on my XD to drop the weapon. In Washington deadly force is justified in defense of self or others. IMO, My first duty as a human being in this case is to prevent the innocent from being harmed. If it was after the fact or the lil varmint was no longer attacking I would render aid and try to hold the creeps. I have done work with ex cons adult and juvenile. My experience has been that those that are that violent at such a young age are working up to murder or rape almost without exception. It is like there is something missing. The ones like that never ever stop preying on other as long as they live. In my mind no different than baby rattlers, actually baby rattlers probably have a higher level of moral development but I'm sure you get the analogy
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  16. #15
    Member Array VegasSIG's Avatar
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    DIAL 911..... Depending where i was i would use my truck as a intimidation factor. Pull up agressivly. Get out with a commanding presence, apply FOX if needed, ASP if needed, and last resort as required. However I am a big guy 6'2 245 pounds, and I have been a bouncer for 11 years. So I am a bit more experinced and capable then the average Joe. More then once danced in a situation like this with adults. As a Firefighter I feel responsable to help ANY injured person, as well as help any person in need.

    I dont think I could watch anyone be beaten, UNLESS there was a serious risk of harm to myself. 3 on 1, armed with pepper spray/asp, and 21 rounds of .40 cal golddots. I am confident.

    Let the courts judge me, I am not watching someone get killed knowing I could have done some think to stop it.

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