A Situation last night

This is a discussion on A Situation last night within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by JumpJump I was on my way into Kroger and standing in the middle of the entrance to the parking lot were a ...

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Thread: A Situation last night

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpJump View Post
    I was on my way into Kroger and standing in the middle of the entrance to the parking lot were a college girl and an older man. I didn't think much of it I just went around them but when I got out of the car I heard the man yelling at the girl arguing about something. I tinkered with my keys for a couple of seconds while examining both of them. The man looked to be a homeless person while the girl looked to be an attractive college student. She looked scared. I caught part of the conversation and the man said, "I hate people like you." This kind of fueled the homeless guy profile of a beggar that didn't receive any money or sympathy from the girl.

    I kept my eye out a couple of minutes longer but he started staring at me. It was night and there were 2 or 3 other people in the parking lot. I wanted to go over and ask the girl if there was a problem with this man bothering her but my gut told me to avoid the confrontation since I was carrying. As a college student I look young and didn't want to escalate the situation by adding my opinion which may be construed as trying to impress a girl.

    So I went into Kroger, bought my stuff intending to check to see if they were still there when I got out. They weren't there and now I feel guilty that I made the wrong choice. I really hope he didn't hurt her or make her feel afraid for her life.

    So what would you have done?

    If given a second chance I would have walked over but would I have been in the right? I wouldn't want to have to draw on an unarmed man if he started to get violent or aggressive because I was standing up for her.

    The consensus I have gathered about conceal and carrying is not to look for trouble but this is a grey area for me. I wasn't a 100% sure what they were talking about or if she was threatened. Is having to think about protecting others(I mean when you are not sure about the threat level) the wrong way to think when carrying?

    Oh yeah I'm new. Hi.

    You could have split the difference between getting involved and leaving to go into the store.

    If you see something like this, take a moment, hang back and have a smoke or just play with your cell phone for a moment as you watch.

    If its nothing, then no harm done other than you are late for the first quarter of the football game on TV, or at the worse, you enter the store after the time state law mandates no more beer to be sold (Its like that in New England...)

    If the situation goes bad and you have to intervene, you have some more information as to what is going on, how many their are, and can position yourself to act in the way that keeps you the safest and achieves the result you want.

    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." (Sun Tzu)

    In the aftermath, should their be one, you can better articulate your actions and observations simply because taking a moment to observe allows you to make those critical observations and decisions which will guide your actions.

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  3. #32
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    How about calling the police?

    In all the replies, I haven't seen one suggest calling the police. Why not a simple call to the police, anonymously if you don't want to stick around, telling them the facts that you've observed, and let the responding officers determine if everything is ok. You can also stick around in case anything else develops before the police arrive.
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)


  4. #33
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    bentcursor ya stole my thunder!!!!

    Call 911 say "I am at the Kroger at__________ and there appears to be an aggressive panhandler harassing a young woman”. Then just hang around until the cops arrive just in case things go south. I know as a young man you don’t have enough experience in life to know what to do, I have been there. I guess it was the case in New York city where a woman was killed and no one called the cops even though she was screaming for 10 min. and all the neighbors heard it that I decided to never stand by. That does not mean I am going to charge in like the Lone Ranger, but I will make a cell call and hang around.

    This guy may have a history of violence etc. you never know. The cops probably are already aware of him and if enough complaints are filed they may be able to do something about him.

  5. #34
    New Member Array JumpJump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Does that mean you plan on divulging to them that you carry?

    Do you carry on campus?

    If so, is it clandestine, or are you allowed to?

    I'm just wondering; if you were to tell the women's studies crowd that you carry, and contemplated being this girl's "protector," there are several possibilities that could happen next.

    (I think that the latter two are the least likely possibilities.)
    I do not plan on telling people I carry, to me the less people that know the better.

    I do not carry on campus because it is against school policy but there are students trying to get that changed through some student protests. I doubt it will change anytime soon.

    Last year I did a speech on CCW and gun violence in a class of mine and was met with "Why do you need a gun?" "Your gun will just hurt innocent people." For that reason I don't tell people that I carry because it scares them.The only positive feedback was from 2 or 3 fellow gun owners, the rest were ignorant to the right to carry. Even after my speech on the facts of gun violence they were skeptical of the concept. Oh well, you can't win them all.

    To say to anyone that you'd like to be a protector opens you up to criticism. I'd be iffy to bring that up. Kinda goes a long with what we studied in class that men think women need to be protected.

    My gf and my gf's parents like the idea that I'm carrying. It inspired my gf's dad to get a permit. If only every family could be like that ha.

    Given another chance I would have waited around to make sure everything was alright. In my gut I felt that the guy wasn't going be violent though. Lesson learned, thanks for the replies guys, I didn't expect to get so much feedback.

  6. #35
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
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    "I wouldn't want to have to draw on an unarmed man if he started to get violent or aggressive because I was standing up for her"

    I don't think him getting violent or agressive warrants you pulling your gun. From your description, no ones life was in danger. You admitted you weren;t sure about the situation. Be sure before you pull the gun. You can't use deadly force to prevent you or someone else from an ass-kicking. If there a weapon was involved (knife, stick etc), then that would change the game. I think you did OK, paying attention, being watchful. Like some others said...call the cops.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    When your only tool is a hammer every problem is a nail.

    There are several things that can be done before lethal force is employed. If the bum has issues and wants to threaten me physically I can always pepperspray him if it is a less than lethal situation.

    I would have simply called out to the young lady, "Are you all right miss?" If the aggresive panhandler has a problem with that then it is of his own making. He gave the poster the evil eye to scare him off and keep the young lady alone and threatenned... it worked.

    I agree with reporting the problem to the store management. If their lot has a regular problem that they are aware of they bear some culpability. Businesses don't like that.

    FYI, I am very against getting into a third person situation unless it is plainly clear what is going on. This one seemed pretty cut and dry, dirty old bum vs. young lady. No need to run in guns blazing but letting this piece of refuse know he has been seen and is being watched could go a long way to solving the immediate problem.

  8. #37
    Member Array RioShooter's Avatar
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    You can't use deadly force to prevent you or someone else from an ass-kicking.
    With all due respect, if you're not a lawyer you should be carefull about giving legal advise. In Texas lethal force has been used to stop unarmed assaults without charges being filed.

    For example, a few years ago a man was assaulted while sitting in his car. As he was being punched in the face, he pulled his CCW and shot the assailant in the chest, and killed him. There was no trial. An ass-kicking can be fatal, and in Texas you can protect yourself from that.

  9. #38
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigsauer View Post
    Dont intervene?

    Dont ask a girl with a frightened look on her face if she is okay?

    What the heck, folks? Why NOT ask if she is okay?

    A least make sure the guy knows you are watching...and put your cell-phone to your ear so he isnt sure if your talking to the police. You could even snap a photo of him with your cellphone if it has that capability.

    But do something!! I am not saying to whip it out and wave it around.

    But why just go about your business when a person's life could very easily be in peril?

    Why not be the concerned citizen?
    Finally someone that I agree with, to a point. I think I might have walked up casually and asked an off the subject question like, "Can you tell me where such and such a store is located?" At this point the bum might have started asking me for money giving the girl a chance to walk away. Or maybe the girl might even have asked for help, or given some indication of what the actual situation was.

    Or who knows she might have simply said "My grandfather wants to know........, can you help?"

  10. #39
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesy_26 View Post
    "I wouldn't want to have to draw on an unarmed man if he started to get violent or aggressive because I was standing up for her"

    You can't use deadly force to prevent you or someone else from an ass-kicking.
    I strongly disagree! An ass-kicking can turn out to be fatal, when you are down and whipped he just might decide to finish you off. In my case I am 72 with a heart condition. An ass-kicking might well be fatal.

    In most states you are allowed to defend yourself if you feel your life is in danger. A 350 muscle man 30 years younger having at me would definitely make me fear for my life and I couldn't care less that he doesn't have a gun or a knife or a baseball bat.

    I Do have a gun! He opens a can of whoop ass on me he will see it!

  11. #40
    Member Array RioShooter's Avatar
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    After a review of the Texas statutes, in the case of an unarmed assault, lethal force can only be used when you feel your life is at risk. I agree with Puppy, for some an ass-kicking could be life-threatening, but there are alot of variables. I guess that's why we have grand juries.

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