November 7th, 2007 10:35 PM
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
November 8th, 2007 02:35 AM
Considering there is lots of cover (cement posts) in most underground parking lots, it seems like you could easily be pinned down by two armed assailants. I would think in this case, you'd be much better off with a higher capacity.
I try to carry two full capacity mags (although I admit, sometimes I wimp out to some extent) for my HK P2000 SK, so that is 10+1 + 2x15 or 41 rounds.
While normally, I understand people think this is overkill, I could easily see scenarios like this one where that round count might even feel a bit thin.
November 10th, 2007 03:12 AM
It would not be offensive if they opened fire first. As soon as they open fire on you, you have every right to shoot back at either one of them. If they started running though, then it would be a different story.
Originally Posted by VegasSIG
I would take cover behind the engine compartment of a parked car. Preferably a truck or some other vehicle with a larger engine. My cell has pretty good reception just about anywhere. I would be surprised if it didn't work 20 feet under the ground. I would call 911 and whisper my location and a general rundown of what was going on. I would then put my phone in my pocket and leave 911 on the line so anything that goes on will be recorded on their end.
If these two guys still tried advancing on me or tried to find me, I would open fire on them, staying covered by the truck. If they don't know where you are, you should have a second to get good aim on them. Once you hit one of them, chances are the other would run.
This kind of situation it would be good to have a high capacity mag in your pistol and an extra clip or two. Laying cover fire while you're running for cover or trying to escape could come in very handy in this situation. The first question I got from my fiance when I bought a 16 round pistol was "Why would you ever need 16 rounds? It should only take 2 or 3 rounds to eliminate a threat unless you don't know how to shoot.". I explained to her that cover fire could be a very useful thing if you use it right. The one downfall of that is you run the risk of hitting an innocent bystander though...but then again if people hear gun shots to begin with and see two armed bad guys, they are probably going to run away
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Smith & Wesson M&P9c
November 11th, 2007 01:51 AM
Please! the fact that they're both armed and one of them took a shot at you means you are in a gunfight! This is NOT the time to fiddle with your cell-phone for any reason.
Originally Posted by Duisburg
Like others, my advice is to get out of there as quickly and safely as possible. If one or both of them gets in your way, or if you have a clear shot at one or both of them, shoot them. Once you are in a safe location, THEN pull out your cell-phone and call for help while keeping a lookout for any other trouble.
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.
November 11th, 2007 11:12 AM
If I'm being shot at, I'll be returning fire to the intended target.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
November 15th, 2007 08:50 AM
Having worked in mechanical maintenance for a bank with a large underground garage, I can visualize this scenario fairly well.
I also know that most have curbs that create "buffer zones" to prevent vehicles from bumping the walls and damaging the structural ingegrity. Getting to the front of a vehicle puts you in that zone, . . . and there are usually either fan wells, . . . fire pipes, . . . support pillars, etc. every few spaces.
Get into one of those corners, . . . and create a funnel for the bg to have to move through to you. Bg comes through the funnel, . . . looking for me, . . . weapon in hand, . . . he's done.
You can also lay on the ground looking under the vehicles for their feet, . . . tends to give away their position.
Cell phone? In an underground garage, . . . just lay it on the ground, . . . it may be useful after you are out of ammo, . . . you can throw it at em.
May God bless,
If you can breathe, . . . thank God.
If you can read, . . . than a teacher.
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a veteran.
November 15th, 2007 10:50 AM
In all likelihood, the BG's are assuming you are unarmed. Once you return fire there is a good chance they will head for the exit faster than you.
If they don't, shoot and scoot seems to be in order. Don't let them get you cornered and don't let them get you in a crossfire. Stay mobile and head for safety. Standing and fighting may sound good and macho, but it may well get you killed, too.
You have a better chance of staying alive by making a fighting, strategic withdrawal until you can get to where you can call for help.
November 15th, 2007 11:28 AM
If there was absolutely no possible escape route, I would stay behind cover and shoot to stop the first gangbanger I saw that had a weapon. Double tap, naturally. If the second stayed around and kept shooting, I would attempt to stop this threat as well. In the end, it would be better to be judged by 12 then carried by six. And stuck with no escape route and with 2 armed assailants coming at me, I doubt I'd have to very much prove my innocence
November 15th, 2007 04:53 PM
I think I would attempt to keep moving behind cover without initially firing any shots. If the BG's are intent on coming after you, by moving you have kept them guessing where you are. Eventually one of them will show themselves to you and then take the opportunity to fire. Continue to move so that if you miss that guy and the other guy doesn't know where you are at.
I am a big believer that part of getting out of sticky situation, unless you are in your own home, is to keep moving. Don't allow yourself to get pinned down. By continuing to move the BG's don't know where you are at and escape opportunities may be created.
Just my $0.02
Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!
"Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell
November 15th, 2007 05:20 PM
More than likely if you take a shot at them they are going to say, "Ooooops, we made a mistake here. This guy is armed". They will head for the exit themselves. Criminals don't want armed victims and they don't want a running gun battle. If not as you said they are looking for you to move so they can zero in on you.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
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