What would you have done - Page 3

What would you have done

This is a discussion on What would you have done within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Juggernaut What they did was inexcusable, but a lot of near-hits occur where we almost get killed on a daily basis because ...

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Thread: What would you have done

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut View Post
    What they did was inexcusable, but a lot of near-hits occur where we almost get killed on a daily basis because someone didn't head-check, or is on a cell phone and starts drifiting over, et c.,
    What they did was inexcusable. Period.

    But nothing. The number of accidents on the roadway or some drivers bad habbits have nothing to do with a group of bikers actively making an assualt on a vehicle.

    That is kind like saying that since there are gun accidents you understand why people use guns for other crimes.

    And yes there is a life on each of those bikes, just like there are lives in the vehicles they are assualting, seems to me the bikers in this case are too stupid to know if someone has half a mind to give it back to them, they will end up on the pavement or under a vehicle.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    I would call 911 and tell them of the problem and tell them I was going to try to get away from them, also giving them my location and direction of travel. I would try to find a way off....also keeping 911 advised. If several of them got in my way....it sucks to be them. I wouldn't go over them...but I would "bump" them to the side. Stopping WOULDN'T be a option, no matter how many of them were sliding down the Hwy. If I knew where Law Enforcement was at...I would bee line to them. If a weapon is displayed...I would be the same no matter what. I would have to stop the threat. This is a horrible position to be put in, but after advising the Police that I was trying to avoid the colony of idiots and get away...I can't see how I could be held responsible for THEIR deaths or injuries done in my attempt to protect myself and family. I spent over a decade driving ambulances around a metro area....I think in the long run....those little rice burners would have the worse of this encounter.
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Such idiots could quickly become speedbumps.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I dont know guys, but do these antics rise to the level of deadly force? It doesnt matter if you use your car or a gun, but using deadly force needs to be justifable. You are walking a fine line in this case.
    Antics? A 4 to 6 hundred pound vehicle who generates gobs of horsepower and can kill/main others goes waaaay beyond antics.

    Deadly force. In my area, an innocent woman (and mother) was killed when some $%$%$ threw a rock/brick into her vehicle. Her child is without mother and her husband is without partner. But wait, the $#%$$ who killed her is now on parole. Don't want to waste a young errant man's life. We can rehabilitate him. $%#$$

    Once a brick comes careening into or near my vehicle (where my infant is riding in) it is time for me to get ahead in the OODA loop and neutralize ALL immediate threats to my child, my wife an myself.

    And I say that as an avid motorcyclist and a motorcycle safety instructor. There is no excuse for what those bikers did. None whatsoever. I would not shed one tear if they met their demise by way of starting this encounter.

    Juggernaut - just because you are a biker does not give a reason for those "biker's" actions. Inattentive cagers and hostile cagers are not a justification for those a$$hats actions. Those issues are orthogonal.

    All others, please do not paint all people who ride on 2 wheels in the same brush stroke as these miscreants.

  5. #35
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    I'm not making excuses for what they did, but did it rise to the level of deadly force?
    I think it could be succesfully argued both ways.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #36
    Member Array Bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I'm not making excuses for what they did, but did it rise to the level of deadly force?
    I think it could be succesfully argued both ways.
    My honest opinion, yes, that was deadly force. If that was me in the car I would take that as a very serious threat especially if I had a child in the car. None of this was an accident or a mistake. I think it really comes down to what are they going to do next after kicking my car and throwing a brick through the window? I don't want to give them a chance to do anything else to endanger me or my family. I will do what I need to do to protect my family. It is a strange situation for sure and very unexpected.
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  7. #37
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    I believe once a brick was thrown, deadly force was justifiable if the person could not escape from the bikers.

  8. #38
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    A handful of ball bearings tossed out the window of the truck at speed will take out followers on bikes.Floorboarding it and doing donuts will clear a nice circle of pavement.The .45 with 2 spare loaded mags will fend off the straglers while you dial 911.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Looks like they are at it again, only with guns.

    http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stori...1cc395cd7.html

    Here is the latest attack by the group, and as expected, they have escalated their attacks to include gun fire.

    (KMOV) - For the third time this week, a different driver is telling News 4 how a group of bikers attacked him.

    This happened along Highway 367 in north St. Louis County.

    Elijah Condellone says his worst nightmare came true in August at the interchange between 367 and 270.

    Condellone says a group of 15 to 20 bikers surrounded his car, and said the bikers sprayed his car with gunfire.

    He says three bullets nailed the passenger side of his car.

    Condellone says if it wasn’t for a stack of CDs he keeps in his car, a bullet would have lodged in his leg.

    After hearing about other recent attacks in the area Condellone says he had to speak up.

    This week a man in Maryland Heights was allegedly attacked on I-270 by dozens of young men on motorcycles, and News 4 obtained the 9-1-1 tapes.

    Tuesday three women and their husbands were allegedly attacked in Soulard Market by a motorcycle gang.

    The bikers apparently threw a large rock through the back windshield of the car.

    The man attacked in Maryland Heights says he thinks the same motorcyclists that attacked the group in Soulard Market were the same suspects who attacked him and his 10-year-old daughter.
    Last edited by farronwolf; November 4th, 2007 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Attack was prior to the other ones, but just reported now.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sojourner View Post
    I believe once a brick was thrown, deadly force was justifiable if the person could not escape from the bikers.
    OK, heres where I'm going with it... at what point does it stop being self defense, and at what point does it become revenge?

    In most areas, if you have means of escape, you must do so. I not even sure the "stand your ground" laws would apply here.
    You are in a car, the bikes can't stop the car. They can annoy, kick or whatever, but your car or truck isnt stopping unless you stop it.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    So if they get on all four sides of your vehicle and slow down like the police do when trying to stop a vehicle. What do you do?

    Do you run over them, or do you slow down? Then what, after your stopped if you decide not to run over them, what do you do when a bunch of idiots have you stopped in the middle of the road and continue to bash your vehicle?

    I would not stop. They have clearly shown thier intentions of great bodily harm or death (in this instance). This is clear cut for me.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  12. #42
    Ex Member Array Creature's Avatar
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    You are in a car, the bikes can't stop the car. They can annoy, kick or whatever, but your car or truck isnt stopping unless you stop it.
    Unless they intentionally put themselves in front of your vehicle. If you don't stop and you run over them, then it is back to the same predicament.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    So if they get on all four sides of your vehicle and slow down like the police do when trying to stop a vehicle. What do you do?

    Do you run over them, or do you slow down? Then what, after your stopped if you decide not to run over them, what do you do when a bunch of idiots have you stopped in the middle of the road and continue to bash your vehicle?

    I would not stop. They have clearly shown thier intentions of great bodily harm or death (in this instance). This is clear cut for me.
    Thats a little different than the OG senario. Yes, dont stop. Keep going.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #44
    Member Array PcMakr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    OK, heres where I'm going with it... at what point does it stop being self defense, and at what point does it become revenge?

    In most areas, if you have means of escape, you must do so. I not even sure the "stand your ground" laws would apply here.
    You are in a car, the bikes can't stop the car. They can annoy, kick or whatever, but your car or truck isnt stopping unless you stop it.
    It stops being self-defense if you continue the fight after they stop the aggression. That is true in any scenario.

    Putting a brick through a window is more than just an annoyance, it can be deadly. They can try to stop the vehicle by getting in front of you and slowing to a stop. If they continue the aggression, engage 4WD and keep going.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    Everyone in this group is here because you have thought about personal survival techniques. Your average citizen has not. And, until these situations happened, I doubt many of us have planned a response if we found ourselves surrounded by hostile bikers.

    Nor are your average drivers equipped to drive a vehicle at pursuit speed while trying to escape said bikers.

    Now, while Missouri's Castle Doctrine states a citizen is not obligated to try to escape a hostile encounter, common sense says if an escape is possible, you should probably try to take it. But at 70mph on a urban Interstate, what are your objects?

    These bikers are nothing more than domestic terrorist and should be responded too as such.

    If not caught soon, there are going to be causalties sooner or later. I just hope the first bodies are not innocent motorist.

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