What would you have done

This is a discussion on What would you have done within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIXTO I'm not making excuses for what they did, but did it rise to the level of deadly force? Yes ! The ...

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Thread: What would you have done

  1. #46
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I'm not making excuses for what they did, but did it rise to the level of deadly force?
    Yes! The second that brick came through the window it became deadly.

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    They can annoy, kick or whatever, but your car or truck isnt stopping unless you stop it.

    It might stop if it has enough ground up rice burners and body parts clogging the undercarriage!

  4. #48
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    But didnt the brick come through the back window? If the intent was to harm you, wouldnt they hae thrown it through the windshield? The brick couldnt have had much force with both vehicles going forward
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    OK, heres where I'm going with it... at what point does it stop being self defense, and at what point does it become revenge?

    In most areas, if you have means of escape, you must do so. I not even sure the "stand your ground" laws would apply here.
    You are in a car, the bikes can't stop the car. They can annoy, kick or whatever, but your car or truck isnt stopping unless you stop it.
    That is a great question/issue. I believe it is situational. I would consider it similarly as having to draw a handgun in self defense. I would take action until the threat is no longer a threat, e.g., I was able to escape them, they saw my action and backed off, I neutralized the threat they posed on me or i was neutralized.

    Some others are saying they would do more. I believe that is internet bluster. I find it hard to believe that people (at least the people that frequent this forum) want to harm others.

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sojourner View Post
    Some others are saying they would do more. I believe that is internet bluster. I find it hard to believe that people (at least the people that frequent this forum) want to harm others.
    I agree.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #51
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    they need to get a police helicopter out there next time. so they can at least track some of them for questioning for the ground units.
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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    But didnt the brick come through the back window? If the intent was to harm you, wouldnt they hae thrown it through the windshield? The brick couldnt have had much force with both vehicles going forward
    What about the child who was probably in the back seat, it might be threatening to the kid. Who knows. I dont think it really matters where it landed, its a danger. I don't think it is revenge at all to defend yourself, you can't really go anywhere in that situation, your kind of stuck where your at. It would be revenge if you followed the bikers after they stopped and were riding away. I see it very similar to a home invasion. Home invader is in your house you shoot him, he is running away from your house you don't.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sojourner View Post
    I believe once a brick was thrown, deadly force was justifiable if the person could not escape from the bikers.
    same here, what were they aiming at your head? how do you know what they were aiming at ? it could cause someone to have a wreck or heart attack anyway. and that = death threat
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  10. #54
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    Ever been hit, even "lightly", by a brick? I have. Twice. In the chin both times.

    Once was at a low rate of speed but enough to keep the brick airborne when it connected with my face. And the other time it was moving a bit quicker. Both times, it broke my jaw. The second time, it knocked me out cold as well.

    In my opinion, a brick hurled with ANY amount of force is a deadly weapon. I definitely would not want to be knocked unconscious by a brick while driving my vehicle.

  11. #55
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    Yes, a brick is a deadly weapon. I'm just playing devils advocate... and to make some people think a little bit beyond the "I'll just run them over" answer.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #56
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    I ride a motorcycle and I can tell you the tensions out here between motorcyclist and 'cagers' as we often refer to them are high. We had a local radio DJ tell people to open car doors on them. With the rising cost of gas, the motorcycle population has gone up. Along with incidents involving motorcyles and cars. There is alot to be said for experience.

    Never underestimate the stupidity of large groups of people. Regardless of age. I have seen car clubs of 40+ yr old men do stupid things. One of the worst, most wreckless people I know on a motorcycle is 50+ and he rides rockets.

    I can not count the number of times I have nearly been hit by a car not paying attention. I have one ticket in the 12 years I have lived here/had a motorcycle. I got it for an unsafe lane change because I swerved into the lane next to me to avoid an SUV who wanted my lane, it was rather rude of me not to give it to him, and thus the cop gave me a ticket. I fought the ticket and won, oddly enough a lawyer had seen the whole thing as he was behind me and came to my defense, he had pulled over further down the road and walked back down, but the cop had already written the ticket.

    I have had to knock mirrors off cars simply to get the attention of the driver, having no escape route that would not put me in danger. I've tasted asphalt, the driver heading the opposite direction in my lane did not even see me and failed to stop.. my friends chased her down. I had a friend rear ended 2 weeks ago at a stop light, by a lady on a cell phone who drove off when he walked up to her vehicle. The force was such that it knocked him off his bike, not a single person stayed back when the light turned green.. he got her liscense plate # called the cops and they have done nothing.

    I have been nearly run off the road many times. I ride with my high beams on at all times, since apparently cars can't see me with a single light on. I drive very defensively, I teach defensive driving. I am always aware of what vehicle is around me.

    I don't condone random acts of violence against anyone, but i promise you this, if anyone ever tries to intentionally kill me while I am on my motorcycle I will defend myself, yes I carry when I ride.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; November 5th, 2007 at 01:08 AM. Reason: Edited Profanity

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    What they did was inexcusable. Period.

    But nothing. The number of accidents on the roadway or some drivers bad habbits have nothing to do with a group of bikers actively making an assualt on a vehicle.

    That is kind like saying that since there are gun accidents you understand why people use guns for other crimes.

    And yes there is a life on each of those bikes, just like there are lives in the vehicles they are assualting, seems to me the bikers in this case are too stupid to know if someone has half a mind to give it back to them, they will end up on the pavement or under a vehicle.
    Quote Originally Posted by sojourner View Post
    Antics? A 4 to 6 hundred pound vehicle who generates gobs of horsepower and can kill/main others goes waaaay beyond antics.

    Deadly force. In my area, an innocent woman (and mother) was killed when some $%$%$ threw a rock/brick into her vehicle. Her child is without mother and her husband is without partner. But wait, the $#%$$ who killed her is now on parole. Don't want to waste a young errant man's life. We can rehabilitate him. $%#$$

    Once a brick comes careening into or near my vehicle (where my infant is riding in) it is time for me to get ahead in the OODA loop and neutralize ALL immediate threats to my child, my wife an myself.

    And I say that as an avid motorcyclist and a motorcycle safety instructor. There is no excuse for what those bikers did. None whatsoever. I would not shed one tear if they met their demise by way of starting this encounter.

    Juggernaut - just because you are a biker does not give a reason for those "biker's" actions. Inattentive cagers and hostile cagers are not a justification for those a$$hats actions. Those issues are orthogonal.


    All others, please do not paint all people who ride on 2 wheels in the same brush stroke as these miscreants.
    I think you guys are misunderstanding my explanation as justification or approval. I said what they did was inexcusable, and it is. The rest of the statement was to enlighten non-riders to the hazards we riders face and could possibly give rise to a group of hooligans and hoodlums taking the actions they did. Do I know for sure that is the case? NO. It is only a possiblity.

    In no way do I condone or justify actions that cause the destruction of property (throwing bearings, spark plugs, rocks out of one's pocket or kicking off mirrors, in retaliation for getting cut off, et c.) or vigilantism; never have, never will.
    Nor will I intentionally commit manslaughter or murder, or post about considering doing it on the the internet.
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  14. #58
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    The fact is if a "reasonable person" would feel that their life was in danger or had fear of great "bodily harm", then you can do whatever you want to protect yourself or others (the same as with the use of a gun).

    The rub I see here is which one. Ya know if you crash one he is going to say "It wasn't me". I don't believe that I would do anything overt until the brick came thru the window. Then there would be a hard reality check going on for the boys on the bikes.
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  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut View Post
    I think you guys are misunderstanding my explanation as justification or approval. I said what they did was inexcusable, and it is. The rest of the statement was to enlighten non-riders to the hazards we riders face and could possibly give rise to a group of hooligans and hoodlums taking the actions they did. Do I know for sure that is the case? NO. It is only a possiblity.

    In no way do I condone or justify actions that cause the destruction of property (throwing bearings, spark plugs, rocks out of one's pocket or kicking off mirrors, in retaliation for getting cut off, et c.) or vigilantism; never have, never will.
    Nor will I intentionally commit manslaughter or murder, or post about considering doing it on the the internet.
    Sorry if I misunderstood you. As an avid motorcyclist and a MSF rider coach, I am well aware of the general drivers either inability to see us or their general disdain for us. I practice defensive riding, wear a white helmet, have extra front lights, LED flashing brake lights and a headlight modulator. That still does nothing for some of the people who turn left in front of me or take my lane. Either they do not see me or they don't care because they will not be damaged sitting in their SUV.

    OK, to keep this post gun related, the only time I wish I were a lefty is when I ride a motorcycle.

  16. #60
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    You just need to *BUMP* get the *CRASH* heck out of *BOOM... SCRAPE* There! *THUMP THUMP*
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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