Would you draw in this situation?

Would you draw in this situation?

This is a discussion on Would you draw in this situation? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This guy is being really belligerent and unruly, but doesnt appear to be major threat to anyones life... but is definitely mad. Would you in ...

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Thread: Would you draw in this situation?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Would you draw in this situation?

    This guy is being really belligerent and unruly, but doesnt appear to be major threat to anyones life... but is definitely mad. Would you in a situation like this draw your weapon to stop this guys temper tantrum? He has no weapon, and is just being upset about a parking spot. What would you do... assuming no LEO's were around?

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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array randy7601's Avatar
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    No. I didn't feel in fear for my life or great bodily harm. The guy's a bully, but adding a handgun to the situation seems like a bad idea to me.
    Randy
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  3. #3
    JD
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    Well I can't open the link from work, without whatever info is there, I'd have to say no.

    I'd probably just get in the car and leave, he can have the spot, it's not worth escalating the situation. Besides I wouldn't want to blow him off and continue my business as that would probably put my back to him, and leave him unattended with my vehicle.

    Now if I tried to give him the spot and leave, and he tries to prevent me from leaving, I'm getting into a modified fighting stance, keeping my gunside away from him, while taking out the phone to call 911, furhter escalation as needed.

    I'm assuming that by "This guy is being really belligerent and unruly" to me, and not just in general, or acting like that towards someone else.

    If he's displaying those actions to someone else, I'll hang around to see if it escalates to the point that I should call the PD, but I'm not going to stick my nose in it unless I have to, IE someone is IN DANGER of receiving mortal harm.

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array Creature's Avatar
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    Gun stays holstered. No one was in mortal danger.

  5. #5
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    In my state threat to human life or threat of severe bodily harm must me imminent before deadly force is used.

    A gun is a tool of last resort. It is not to intimidate, warn or threaten.

    We need to be fully prepared and that doesn't just mean range training. I think many would benefit from a weaponless defense class to round out their skills.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  6. #6
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    First, this is NOT a parking space dispute.

    Look at the markings on the pavement. This is on the street, at a light. The guy wants the other guy to move his car so he can drive past as he yells at him to pull into a driveway.

    I didn't see what happened before the video started. The video started with them both being outside of their vehicles. So I HAVE to assume that the first individual got out of his car when the second individual approached to contest the traffic situation (that was his first mistake. He should have stayed in his vehicle and called the police).

    If someone approaches me in on the street, yelling, first, I'm not getting out of my car, but if I were out of my car (I'm not sure why I would be), I'm at least going to turn and protect my gun side while I command him to stop and say anything I can to calm the situation.

    Now, keep in mind that the first individual's sister comes from somewhere, it's safe to assume that she was in the car with him and while the camera was off of them she got out of the car AFTER they moved the car. That means she was in the car when the "BG" (in this scenario) tried getting in the car to move it himself.

    If anyone pushed me out of the way to get into my car with a family member therein, YES, I would draw. For all I know, this is an attempted kidnapping of a loved one and on top of that he's just assaulted me. At very least he's getting the crap pepper-sprayed out of him.

    Now, if no family member was in the car and he tried to push me out of the way to get in my car, I would not draw my gun, but he's still getting sprayed and I'm calling the police while he tries to dig his burning eyeballs out of his head. No one man-handles me. I'm no match for someone his size physically and I don't know his intentions. He would have at least gotten sprayed if that were me.

    If he backed off enough for me to get back in my car, I'd get in and drive away (to the best of my ability, seeing the traffic conditions).

    It's not worth escalating, but this guy is in a permanent state of escalation in this video. He is itching for a fight and taking it out on everyone. There are at least three people that he assaults in this video. Any one of them would have been justified in at least spraying him.

    Watch the video closely and you'll see this is no parking lot. With that in mind, does the scenario change for any of you?

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Question: Who am I?

    From whos perspective am I toward this question of draw or not?
    There are a multiple of involved persons:
    * Small car guy (assaulted);
    * Camera man (assaulted);
    * Camera guy support person heard only in voice (untouched);
    * Lady who challenged and stupidly assaulted (she walked up and verbally challenged then pushed him first) the obviously disturbed man who as a result found herself being pushed back in response to her own attack and fell to the ground (a perfect example of don't start what you are not prepared or able to finish, regardless of gender!);
    * Police Officers 1 & 2.

    Personally I would not deploy lethal force if I were any one of those citizens.
    There was no reason to do so.
    If I were the police I might have if I had been aware of his actions prior (attacking car guy and cameraman). As I would not be though and only aware of the fracas with the woman I'd likely approach gun holstered.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    I didn't read your link, but absolutely not draw from your info.
    Les Baer 45
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array SOLOLUCKY's Avatar
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    It was nice to see cops close enough that they witnessed his actions and is on his way to jail. That is justice to me. When at all possible I want the "state" to do the/my dirty work.
    But no unholstered weapon at any point of the video from me.
    R1

    This is mine. That is yours.

    Lets keep it that way.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    While appearances can be deceiving, the BG was not dressed like a your average street thug. The person he chose to get the most violent with was a woman. It seems to me that he really didn't want a "fair" fight. Would I pull a gun? No. Big stick (or pepper spray, taser, etc)? Probably. However, if a big guy like that attacks someone’s female family member or friend, he is inviting more violence on himself then he probably deserves. May God have mercy on the man that assaults my wife because I probably won't.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Stirling,

    The woman came out of nowhere and attacked the beligerent disturbed guy first, going hands on toward him to start.
    It was then that he turned in response and reacted in same to which she lost her footing and went to the ground. Rewatch the video.
    If she had not instigated things by going hands on she would not have been approached nor pushed. She caused her own problems in specific, and was stupid to do so considering the known of the mans size and associated strength levels as relative to her own and that she is just a citizen and not a police.

    As to what all happened prior to that the Black man assaulted two _men_prior to the woman, which for her should have been a clue to not get up in his face never mind go hands on with him, and it's obvious he's not at all acting reasonably. Even still though with all that and his pushing/shoving of people prior there was justification for involvement of lethal force.

    The Black man needs to go to jail and he'd be right and in his right to file with the officers a complaint of being assaulted prior by the woman who he had pushed. It's right there on tape her initial assault of him.
    He'd look like a pansy and likely no action would be taken upon his complaint but he wouldn't be wrong to do so either.
    The driver of the small car took the worst of it in regard to assault being pushed hard a couple of times (he just didn't fall is all) and verbally assaulted as well along with an attempted carjack of his vehicle which he succesfully stopped with words.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    No but I might hose him down with OC if he got agressive.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    Janq,

    You are right. I watched the video again. The woman invited trouble upon herself and it did look like she stumbled when she was pushed. I also agree that he could file charges against her, but I would hate to be in his shoes trying to make that stick in court. IMHO, I think she did size this guy up before confronting him. If the guy had been swing a baseball bat at people, she probably would have kept her mouth shut and stayed on the sidewalk. Instead, she may have seen a guy driving a Mercedes and wearing a tie and thought, "If he hits me, I'll sue." But, of course, I could be wrong.

    The big guy in this video needs some anger management classes at the very least and jail time at the most. The woman should consider a coarse on conflict resolution.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
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    No way, good way to end up with a court case and your CCW revoked. If he's not a credible threat the sidearm stays put.

  15. #15
    Member Array state6three8's Avatar
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    If I were the driver of the lead car: First off there's something to be said about rolled up windows and locked car doors. But if the guy got the drop on me... I see several prime opportunities for a stop kick to the chest. BM is trying to use his size to intimidate as he towers above the others, leaving him wide open for all sorts of strikes (high and low). I would have never let the guy into my car. As BM was getting in and out of the lead car he left his head/neck wide open for any kind of "good night" tactics.

    This guy was a prime threat level for OC spray. I would not have even mentioned anything about a gun. Leave it holstered until lethal threats are afoot. The cops got there very quickly... don't you think?

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