Angry biker with road rage
This is a discussion on Angry biker with road rage within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think you guys are missing the point.
I know that it's my fault. People make mistakes on the road. Get off your high horses, ...
November 14th, 2007 10:53 AM
I think you guys are missing the point.
I know that it's my fault. People make mistakes on the road. Get off your high horses, I'm sure some of you have made mistakes too. Mistakes sometimes get people killed, but everything ended up alright and no one was hurt. I didn't mind him revving his engine and flashing his lights because I deserved it. I'm not looking for sympathy, because I know I messed up. I'm looking for advice on what to do when you have some psycho following you around looking for trouble.
Nobody deserves that. I can't believe that any law-abiding citizen would side with someone looking for vigilante justice.
BTW: This morning I found my truck hit with some minor vandalism. They just took the net out of the bed and tangled it in the windshield wipers. This is scary. I live pretty deep in the apartment complex and have a rather generic looking truck. I'm not quite sure if it was just some punk (I live in a place that caters to college students) or the biker looking for revenge.
He would have had to wait until the guard goes off duty (several hours after the incident) and patroled just about the entire complex to find my vehicle. I'm seriously hoping I'm dealing with a couple of drunk kids rather than a stalker.
November 14th, 2007 10:53 AM
November 14th, 2007 11:54 AM
I don't think anyone missed any point. You were reckless, decided your vehicle's finish was more important than a biker's life, then received an angry response from said biker. And your flippant attitude
leads me to believe you have not thought at all about how you can be a better driver after this incident. And your request for tactical info. makes me believe you only want info. on how to deal with this aggressor.
Mistakes sometimes get people killed, but everything ended up alright and no one was hurt.
If you think you are being followed, make 4 rights. That will put you directly back where you were on the road and confirm if indeed you are being followed. If so, get on your cell and call for LEO. While doing that, try to drive to a well lit and public area. I would recommend not trying to make lefts as you have a higher probability of getting stuck in traffic. Also, if followed, never go back to your place of residence.
As to the vandalism, you could point a CCTV / webcam / video recorder out your window to your truck and hope to get evidence of the vandalism to give to the police. Don't go out an confront the people yourself.
I hope you have gained some insight into what to do if you think you are being followed AND some insight as to the consequences of your actions on the road.
November 14th, 2007 12:53 PM
How do you know that he was a psycho looking for vigilante justice? He may have just been a nice guy riding his bike when some driver(you) almost kill him by swerving into him. The adrenaline rush you gave him needs a vent and a lot of times, that can come by letting him chew your ass out, which you really deserved. Not giving an apology doesn't help. If it becomes physical, that's another matter.
Originally Posted by credy
I rode for over 10 years in the midwest, daily to work, etc., in just about all kinds of weather including snow and sleet a few times. Not bragging, bike was only transportation. Had to adopt attitude of being the 'invisible rider', and only laid bike down once, due to sudden lane change by 16 yr. old driver. Fortunately for me, no injuries. Unfortunately, due to health issues, I don't feel that I can ride a bike safely any longer, but, I still have the yearning to ride.
I have also had a few brain farts, where I did not see a biker, or he made a lane change that was not anticipated by me, and almost caused an accident. I've had them chew my ass and give me the bird. I understand their frustration and anger because it has happened to me. I have always apologized and it has always calmed the situation down.
Yes, the biker may not have been paying full attention, especially at night, but, his anger at you for messing up doesn't make him a psycho vigilante
Last edited by Captain Crunch; November 15th, 2007 at 12:42 AM.
Reason: Edited Language Workaround
November 14th, 2007 02:39 PM
You had a choice to yield, let the biker go by, then merge. Instead you figure putting the bikers life in danger was the better thing to do.
Originally Posted by credy
Yet you call someone tangling your net around your wipers as SCARY?
What is scary is what the biker went through to save their life from someone who put a paint job above their life.
You said, "Mistakes sometimes get people killed, but everything ended up alright and no one was hurt."
Why don't you use this same theory when it comes to your truck?
No one got hurt so you should just let it go.
What is scary for me is this is a gun forum and someone like you, who has no concern for others lives, might be carrying a gun. Now you want us to tell you what to do the next time something like this happens again.
I think you are missing OUR points.
The lesson here is that you need to change the way you care about others and you won't put yourself in these situations in the first place.
You picked your truck over their life. They may have picked your truck over your life.
I think if the biker did do this to your truck they had a better head on their shoulders then you did.
If he would have picked your life like you picked his life you might not be here today.
You surely didn't care if he was here today.
Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.
November 14th, 2007 02:57 PM
Since your apartment is a gated community and has a full time security gaurd, maybe it was a good call to go to the entrance to the complex. I am assuming that it is well lit and there is sure to be someone else there in the event that something bad was about to happen.
Another option would be as others have suggested and go to the local police station or someplace else away from your home where your sure that there will be plenty of people for witnesses if something bad happens.
The problem I am having with a lot of the responses on here is that people are assuming, we all know what that means, that you put the motorcylce riders life in danger. I went back and reread all the posts and unless I am missing something, you cut him off. I don't see where you forced him into another lane of traffic, or caused him to lay his bike down or anything so drastic as some have suggested. Was it just simply he had to slow down in order not to rear end you? That is what it sounds like to me since he was behind you and gunning the engine and flashing his lights after you cutting him off. I am sure that anyone that has ridden a motorcycle has some tale of how irresponsible some person in a car or truck has been and put their life in danger. Well guess what, most everyone that has driven a car or truck has similar tales of how some other idiot did something and either caused them to have an accident or put their life in danger too, whether they were on a motorcycle or in another car or truck. Driving is dangerous, that is a given, we all should be careful regardless of what type of vehicle we operate.
The OP admitted that he cut the bike off, without knowing all the facts of the incident, I don't know if he broke any traffic laws or not by his actions. Regardless of that, if we all made it a point to follow everyone that did something that irritated us while we were driving every day whether it is a driving violation or not, I doubt any of us would ever get to work and back. Horns, fingers, name calling, shaking your head, hand whatever gets the point across that the person messed up, when you make it a point to follow the person, that is another issue all together.
We all have made it a point to insure our defense by carrying a weapon. Along with that most of us make it a point to stay in areas, and circumstances that make us less likely to actually have to use that weapon we carry. I would think that those same traits would carry over into other aspects of our lives as well. If your going to operate a vehicle you should take every precaution for your safety, and if your going to operate a motorcyle, you should take more precautions for you safety, knowing that there are vehicles on the road that may not be as aware of you as other vehicles.
All drivers make mistakes, it is human nature, just because someone chooses one type of vehicle or another doesn't make thier mistakes any better or worse, it just makes the consequences of their mistakes different.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
November 14th, 2007 04:15 PM
Thank you farronwolf for having some sense.
I don't even know why this thread has turned into a traffic discussion rather than a defensive discussion. I ask for advice on how to handle a situation that was accidently created (something most of you apparent flawless drivers have never experienced). I acknowledged my guilt from the beginning, chalked it up as a lesson learned but all you naysayers can do is take more stabs at my admitted faulty judgement while I have a possible stalker who is willing to dedicate hours to getting back at me over a minor traffic altercation that was caused by two aggressive drivers (he saw me heading for the dead end when I was about 4 car lengths ahead of me and chose to try and run me off the road by speeding ahead of me.)
I'm done here, thank you to those who gave helpful advice instead of just attacking my poor judgement.
November 14th, 2007 04:45 PM
Sounds like you may both have been at fault. Story is starting to get flaky, as now you are adding details that were not in the original post. Perhaps trying to justify your actions, or just trying to clarify details?
Originally Posted by credy
November 14th, 2007 05:23 PM
ok guys, I think we're giving him kind of a hard time about this. He made a mistake while driving, but not an unforgivable one. Here's my take, as a biker who has been on the other side of this situation before...
Originally Posted by credy
Bottom line is you ticked off the biker, and he was right to honk and flash at you. If you only drove 100ft before turning in, I think the tailgating was your own making. And the rev'ing could well have been him down-shifting in case you did anything else not in his best interests.
But that should've been the end of it. Had it been me on the bike (and it has been me several times), you would have gotten a flash, maybe a honk, and a downshift, but I would've been happy to let you turn off and get out of my way.
Following someone into a parking lot with the intent of "giving him a piece of your mind" is a good way to get yourself beat/shot/stabbed/arrested. It is ALWAYS better to just let it go, and focus on getting yourself into a safe situation.
credy - Here's my only gripe about how you handled the situation, aside from your initial traffic mistake: If you think you're being followed, the absolute last place you ever want to go is to your home. Go to a shopping center, go to the police station, go to some random street, but DO NOT lead him to your home, even if there's a rent-a-cop by the gate.
I'm glad your situation didn't escalate. In the future, I'm sure you'll be a bit more careful merging, and hopefully more careful who you let follow you home.
"A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?
November 14th, 2007 07:09 PM
I think you did fine credy. Don't worry about it. You might consider getting new license plates though....
November 14th, 2007 09:35 PM
Well Credy, I dont beat around the bush... you made a lot of mistakes.
Aside from the driving issues, you should have kept going right on past your apartment. The guard isnt going to do jack, except be a witness. I am assuming that you also parked near the building that you live... another mistake.
Anyway, pay more attention to your driving, and think these tactical problems through. Survival isnt about right now, its about the future too.
November 14th, 2007 09:57 PM
So how is that possible when the road 'literally' ended in 20'?
Originally Posted by credy
November 14th, 2007 11:03 PM
Lets keep this discussion on topic of self defense and not dwell on the traffic aspect otherwise the thread is bound to get locked.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
November 14th, 2007 11:43 PM
What I find a bit funny is that the biker got all huffy and puffy and decided to follow and "harrass" a vehicle. The OPs truck probably weighs 5-6 times what the biker and his motorcycle weighs, yet biker is going to mess with someone in a vehicle? Where I come from, you'd get runned right over. The biker is lucky you weren't a psycho and slammed on the brakes when he was riding your tail.
Tough call. I'm staying out of this one. You look like you learned some lessons so I'll just leave it at that.
November 15th, 2007 12:13 AM
When the gun goes on the hip, the situational awarness goes up, and the ego turns off. You made a mistake, you admited it. I think thats where it ends. I doubt this guy has such a chip on his shoulder he is going to do $x amount of dollars$ to your truck. Motor cycles slow down alot faster than cars do, it prlly just scared the bejesues out of him, and everyone react differently when they get scared. Boost your situational awarness and lose all sense of ego (when carrying, but always is good too) and everything will be okay.
"A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington
November 15th, 2007 02:52 AM
I think the OP has "learned his lesson" on this one and it's not likely that this thread is going to get back on track so probably best to close it.....
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
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