Prowler cuts power... - Page 4

Prowler cuts power...

This is a discussion on Prowler cuts power... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I understand the Castle Doctrine pretty well in principle. However, I and others in this thread have recommended taking up a defensive position, weapon of ...

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Thread: Prowler cuts power...

  1. #46
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    I understand the Castle Doctrine pretty well in principle. However, I and others in this thread have recommended taking up a defensive position, weapon of choice at the ready, and firing upon entry. Is it possible that someone following this advice could still be prosecuted if they did nothing to try to stop the BG from coming in, such as verbally warning them that you know they are there, and will fire if they come in?

    I stated earlier that, once I know that a BG is trying to break in, I don't want him to get away because I don't want him coming back. Best case is that the police take him away, but I'm fine with other resolutions too the situation as well... But could not scaring the BG, off if it is possible to do so, get the homeowner into trouble???

    I could see an anti prosecutor spinning the story to make it sound like the homeowner committed a premeditated murder by taking that defensive position, and basically waiting for a clear shot, without giving a warning that clearly could have been given, but was not. I'm just thinkin' 'out loud' here. Please tell me I'm wrong and that my scenario could never happen, even in the more anti-gun states.
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged


  2. #47
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    Who's to say I didn't warn him not to come in?
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Zaria View Post
    Oh, I would never hinge my decision on this point - booger hook doesn't contact bang switch until my life or the life of a family member is endangered. Carjacking might be the one exception to this.


    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    I think I understand your point. But, to me, carjacking is endangering my life. Most carjackings seem to be done by a BG with a gun. Even if he has no gun, his intention is clearly violent. There is no real difference in breaking into my home or my car (at least in FL the law supports this).

  4. #49
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Who's to say I didn't warn him not to come in?
    I take your point, but in your original post, you noted you'd call 911. I assume you would call them, tell them what is happening, then hang up so that they couldn't hear you not warn the BG? I've got no problem with that, especially if you already have made up your mind that you aren't giving any warning other than the 1 second it will take you to ID them with your light.

    I guess you just have to remember to hang up before not shouting your warning...
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  5. #50
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    Bear in mind, LEO's are charged with trying to make an arrest if at all possible.

    Those of us who are not LEO's are not bound by law to give verbal challenges before we shoot someone.

    If the BG is inside your home in this state, you can legally assume "feloneous intent" on the part of the BG. Therefore, the jeopardy component of lethal force is automatically in place. The BG armed with the crowbar he just used to break in with also gives him the ability & opportunity to kill or seriously cripple you.

    Again, as citizens and not being LEO's we are not obligated to give any warning before we use lethal force to defend ourselves in a life threatening situation.

    Sure, I do not want to have to shoot someone and if it's prudent to do so, I may challenge a person to stop. However, by giving a verbal challenge, you in effect lower your tactical advantage and we are not required to do that.

    Home invasions are by their very nature, deadly encounters. Anyone who cuts the power to my house before he enters tells me he's trying to gain a tactical advantage over me and he's no one to mess with.

    I hope that makes sense and clears up any issues.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #51
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    If the BG is inside your home in this state, you can legally assume "feloneous intent" on the part of the BG. Therefore, the jeopardy component of lethal force is automatically in place. The BG armed with the crowbar he just used to break in with also gives him the ability & opportunity to kill or seriously cripple you.

    Again, as citizens and not being LEO's we are not obligated to give any warning before we use lethal force to defend ourselves in a life threatening situation.

    Sure, I do not want to have to shoot someone and if it's prudent to do so, I may challenge a person to stop. However, by giving a verbal challenge, you in effect lower your tactical advantage and we are not required to do that.
    I suppose the lesson to take away from this is to recognize that, when calling 911, you are being recorded and whatever you say to the call taker is going to be treated just like whatever statements you make to LEOs that respond after the fact. I guess I need to be sure I say whatever is necessary to get help sent out as quickly as possible, and only that much. Basically, give the statement I'd give to police after an event, but put it in the present tense - "Someone has cut the power and is trying to break in. I AM afraid for my life, and I am going to shoot to stop the threat if necessary. Send help now." Along with my name & address of course...

    Am I right?
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  7. #52
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    Instead of saying "I am going to shoot to stop the threat if necessary", you may want to consider just saying, "I'm prepared to defend myself" and leave it at that.

    If the dispatcher asks if you are armed, tell them "YES!" It is very beneficial for the responding LEO's to know that the homeowner is armed from an officer safety standpoint!

    Remember, once things go down, and police have arrived, don't make statements to the police until you've had time to consult your attorney and regain your composure.

    Once everything goes down, from that point on, statements like what you may have said to dispatch or to the intruder; what happened next' and how things played out and in what time frame, will more than likely be inaccurate due to the dynamics of adrenalin, and other effects of being in a lethal encounter. The statements you make to police will be taken down as gospel, and if the physical evidence or what the dispatch tapes vary from your statements already made, you may find yourself in a pickle.

    It may be ok to lay out to police the facts before hand such as, your power went out, you heard someone at the back of the house when the power went out and then someone broke in. (But I would avoid even that if at all possible. You don't want to come off as "advisarial" but you also want to assert your right to remain silent.)

    I would just inform police that you've just been through a terrible ordeal in which you were afraid for your life and at this point they can expect your full cooperation and statement after you've had an opportunity to consult with your attorney.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #53
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Bark'n-

    All good advice which all makes sense to me. Now all I've got to do is remember all of it should I ever need it. That and pray I never will...

    Thanks!
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  9. #54
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    +1 to Packer1911.

    I'd rack a shotgun, a universal language before he made entry, if he or he and his friends don't take the advice and light flash they will learn the hard way.

    Now consider the same scenario when you're asleep. Our alarm system has battery backup and would wail, the dog would go nuts and we'd secure the bedroom door with a wedge, lights off, and repel invaders - both the Mrs. and I have practiced at more than the range.

  10. #55
    Ex Member Array Joe R's Avatar
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    There is no law that requires the line to 911 to stay open all the time throught the emergency nor that one has to say anything at all.

    Consider what I am saying carefully. A quick: send the cops, someone is breaking into my house at 123 Main Street and hanging up is all that is necessary to get them rolling.

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    I'm curious about the cutting power thing.

    It was pointed out that cutting the power will deactivate wireless phones and alarm systems, but I'd like to point out that most alarm systems have a battery backup. Cutting the power will not usually stop the alarm, either the heard alarm, or the ability of the system to 'call out'.

    Cutting the phone line on the other hand, stops all land lines, regardless if they are wireless or hardwired.

    So, did the BG cut the phone line too?

    What time of day did this occur and what day of the week?

    Is this a time someone would normally be home?

    Were there indications that someone was home?

    Oh, and as a fellow resident of the general Seattle area, could you be more specific about where this happened?

    In any case, it sounds pretty creepy.

    -john

  12. #57
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    I'm just making assumptions here based on the original post in response to bzdog's post above.

    1) cut the power, maybe just because he's stupid and maybe to accomplish a level of fear in the homeowner. Obviously cutting the power only disables wireless phone units. It does nothing to disable a hardwired phone or cell phones.

    It really doesn't matter why... as far as I'm concerned, someone who cuts my power before breaking in is being done in an attempt to gain some sort of advantage over me and I'll act accordingly. (Wherever I have a firearm close by, I also have a tactical flashlight next to the gun or in my pocket)

    2) We have no idea if phone lines were cut as it wasn't mentioned in the original post or subsequent posts by the poster.

    3) According to the original post, the homeowner looked outside and noticed all the neighbors still had power. This leads me to assume that it was at least dusk outside where people had lights on in their houses that was easy to see. If it was broad daylight, sometimes it's difficult to tell if a neighbor has any lights on inside.

    4) Since I was assuming the time was at least dusk to dark based on my above statement, I would think one would assume that at least someone should be home at that time, unless you were doing surveillence on the house prior in order to obtain the residents habits.

    5) Nothing was mentioned by the original post whether there were obvious indications from the outside that someone was at home.

    Really, does any of this matter? Everyone who owns a firearm for self defense, especially if they are ccw holders should have an action plan on how to handle a home invasion or burglery while they are at home and have all these issues covered well beforehand!

    I know we do at our house.

    We have situations planned out whether my wife is home alone, whether I am home alone or both of us are home together.

    We also have plans for whether the intrusion happens when we are awake or asleep and awoken by sounds inside the home.

    We also have plans on how to respond if we have company over at that time whether they are staying overnight or not.

    Stay safe, be prepared and have an action plan with a back-up plan in place.

    When SHTF, your brain will default to how you have trained and programmed it to respond.

    If you haven't trained on it or at least planned how to respond, chances are good your brain will default to panic when something does happen.

    Just my 2 cents, YMMV!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  13. #58
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    I agree, it doesn't change things from a tactical perspective, but I'm just curious if the BG knew or suspected someone was home.

    I guess I find it somewhat of a disturbing trend.

    I also would find it rather puzzling if the BG cut the power and didn't cut the phone.

    -john

  14. #59
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    I don't think that when he said cut the power he actually meant cut the power lines. He probably just turned off the breaker at the point where service enters the house, thereby "cutting" the power to the house.

    And yes most alarm systems do have battery backups that allow them to call out as long as the phone line is still intact, some have backups that work off of a cellular system to enable them to call out even if and when the phone line has been cut. These are mostly found on businesses from my understanding.

    My guess is that the phone line in this instance was not cut, but the OP will have to answer that one.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  15. #60
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bzdog View Post
    I'm curious about the cutting power thing.

    It was pointed out that cutting the power will deactivate wireless phones and alarm systems, but I'd like to point out that most alarm systems have a battery backup. Cutting the power will not usually stop the alarm, either the heard alarm, or the ability of the system to 'call out'.

    Cutting the phone line on the other hand, stops all land lines, regardless if they are wireless or hardwired.

    So, did the BG cut the phone line too?

    What time of day did this occur and what day of the week?

    Is this a time someone would normally be home?

    Were there indications that someone was home?

    Oh, and as a fellow resident of the general Seattle area, could you be more specific about where this happened?

    In any case, it sounds pretty creepy.

    -john
    My friend's home does not have an alarm system, just motion detector flood lights (but several of the nice big 400W kind) and good locks. It's a small enough home that you'd hear glass breaking on one side, from the opposite side of the house. His dog passed away recently and he hasn't gotten a new one yet (but this will probably motivate him).
    Cutting power, I assume, was intended to disable the motion lights and hopefully the phones. Phone lines were not cut (BG probably couldn't find them, phone box is on the other side of the house and under a porch). Friend did have a cell phone, though.

    BG cut the power via an axe or sharp instrument to the cable leading out of the power meter outside the house. Power company came and fixed it the next day.

    Was around 11 - 11:30 pm, I don't know what day of the week, will ask him next time he's online. Someone is usually home then, and his pickup was parked in the driveway as usual.

    He lives near Snoqualmie/North Bend, but I'd rather not say exactly where.

    After reading all of your posts and considering it, if this happened at my own home I would stay inside with a shotgun aimed at the door. If BG forced entry, I'd do my best to ID him (at least make sure it's not someone I know) before ventilating. Assuming I'm not required to, I see no reason to issue a verbal challenge here.
    I have an LED 3D maglite, but I need to get a smaller light or a weapon-mounted light for my home defense shotgun. Something to ask the g/f to get me for Christmas :)

    Thanks for your responses, this has been a very informative and thought-provoking thread. Making decisions like this in advance, so that if you're ever in the situation, you don't have to contemplate it, seems like the way to go. I probably spend a bit too much time going over scenarios like this, some would call it paranoid...

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.

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