This JUST happened to my wife... dog attack and stupid LEO

This is a discussion on This JUST happened to my wife... dog attack and stupid LEO within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I agree with everyone else. Follow through on this. While most LEOs try to do the right thing, some get too big for their britches. ...

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Thread: This JUST happened to my wife... dog attack and stupid LEO

  1. #16
    Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    I agree with everyone else. Follow through on this. While most LEOs try to do the right thing, some get too big for their britches. Or he may have just moved their from another state and hasn't bothered to learn the VA laws.

    I printed out the laws concerning concealed carry, where you can't carry, what justifies deadly force and so on. I keep it in my vehicles, at home and on my computer. If a LEO tells me I'm breaking the law when I'm not, I can quote the codes.

    I also suggest carrying a good stick or pepper spray, when taking the dog out as well as you gun. It gives you another option. And don't forget the power of a loud and firm yell. I've broken up a few dog fights that way.

    Good luck.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    I would have a talk with his SGT.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Make sure you follow through on the complaint process on this one. If you need help contact VCDL's Execs and see if they can point you in the right direction or even help out. There's something very wrong about an LEO telling a woman she can't protect herself from a roaming, aggressive dog.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    ummm.......so will the guy with the dog be cited? Has animal control been contacted?

    IRT ignorant police in VA: With as much press VCDL has gotten in the last three years, you would have to be living under a rock to know where guns are prohibited (courthouses, schools, airport) and allowed (State Capitol, public buildings, restaurants, parks, etc.). Sorry, no pass for the PO...this was an easy one to look up.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  6. #20
    Member Array chiboxer's Avatar
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    While agree, in theory, that the officer shouldn't give out incorrect legal information, where do people get off thinking a complaint to Internal Affairs for a mistake is appropriate? First of all, being mistaken is no rule violation on any department I've ever been associated with. Secondly, a chat with the officer's CO would probably clear up 99&#37; of any problems. Thirdly, do CCW holders really want to start making IA complaints, every time they disagree with the police? To me, that doesn't seem like a great way to maintain LE support for CCW, quite the opposite actually. Most opponents of CCW (I live in WI) point to incidents just like this to illustrate why CCW is a bad idea. They usually have the backing of the police in making their points. Don't you want the police on your side? An antagnonistic attitude towards your PD is not going to garner their love and support.
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    Where I live free roaming dogs between the hours of dusk and dawn are prohibited and "fair game" for those that feel the need to kill them. Daylight is an entirely different matter, they are then considered to be the property of another and not to be molested, unless they are being destructive.

    Coyotes are "fair game" anytime. Hard to tell some dogs from a coyote at a distance.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiboxer View Post
    While agree, in theory, that the officer shouldn't give out incorrect legal information, where do people get off thinking a complaint to Internal Affairs for a mistake is appropriate? First of all, being mistaken is no rule violation on any department I've ever been associated with. Secondly, a chat with the officer's CO would probably clear up 99% of any problems. Thirdly, do CCW holders really want to start making IA complaints, every time they disagree with the police? To me, that doesn't seem like a great way to maintain LE support for CCW, quite the opposite actually. Most opponents of CCW (I live in WI) point to incidents just like this to illustrate why CCW is a bad idea. They usually have the backing of the police in making their points. Don't you want the police on your side? An antagnonistic attitude towards your PD is not going to garner their love and support.
    No actually I don't want them on my side or any other for that matter. I want them to follow the same law that the rest of us have to follow. Sides don't matter if they can't be bothered to both A) follow their own laws, B) see a little common sense.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  9. #23
    Member Array chiboxer's Avatar
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    You seem to have some anger towards the police. All I am saying is a mistake by them doesn't mean they're incompetent or need to have an Internal Affairs document started. What's with the profanity anyway? We obviously have a differnece of opinion but that I don't get.
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Be nice when you file your complaint. I guarantee you they will ignore it if you are hostile or threaten to sue etc.. Point out the inaccuracies as to VA law and this officer's understanding. Explain how a dog cannot file a complaint about brandishing and her gun was holstered when the owner arrived. As to why she carries a gun while this is none of his business I would point out the obvious, she was being stocked by an aggressive dog. That's one reason.
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiboxer
    You seem to have some anger towards the police. All I am saying is a mistake by them doesn't mean they're incompetent or need to have an Internal Affairs document started. What's with the profanity anyway? We obviously have a differnece of opinion but that I don't get.
    LEO tells my wife that even if she felt threatened, if she had shot the dog, she would automatically be charged with destruction of property, and if the owner calls to complain, she will automatically be charged with brandishing. He also tells her that she has broken the law by wearing her weapon into the police station (I told her it was OK), that weapons are prohibited in ALL government buildings, which is completely false.
    The PO fails logic when he ties "felt threatened [by the dog] = destruction of property"; and "dog owner complains=brandishing". He is putting to disparate pieces of information together and calling them fact. He is wrong.

    You may defend yourself against roaming animals, and in my (VA) county (like other counties in VA), may defend your animal from other animals.

    VCDL holds meetings in government buildings--it has been well-publicised and highlighted in open press reporting for the last 3 years. In fact, those with a concealed handgun permit can open or conceal carry in the statehouse in Richmond to meet with legislators. So, for this PO to state carrying in a public building is illegal is wrong.

    Why not bring in Internal Affairs? If it is low-hanging fruit, they can defer to the Capt/Lt/Sgt to conduct remedial training. Meanwhile, it can start a paper trail to see if this PO has repeat performances with other gun owners.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  12. #26
    Ex Member Array Creature's Avatar
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    All I am saying is a mistake by them doesn't mean they're incompetent or need to have an Internal Affairs document started.
    This mistake could have led to a woman being illegally arrested and falsely charge. I dont see this as a "simple mistake, no harm done" situation. This officer needs prompt remedial training on VA laws concerning concealed carry.

    A report to officer's CO should be the start to ensuring anyone else in that department who needs refresher training gets it as well.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiboxer View Post
    You seem to have some anger towards the police. All I am saying is a mistake by them doesn't mean they're incompetent or need to have an Internal Affairs document started. What's with the profanity anyway? We obviously have a differnece of opinion but that I don't get.
    I meant no offense toward you. I just get a wee bit heated when I continually see folks that insist on giving leo's in VA the benefit of doubt when it comes to the law. If you're an LEO in VA you should know by now what goes and what doesn't.

    I usually don't have any anger towards the LEO's unless deserved. There's LEO's on this board that I have the utmost respect for. There's a difference between general anger towards all LEO's and righteous anger towards those who seem to feel that folks need not protect themselves. I didn't however say anything about infernal affairs.

    There are clearly at least 2 schools of thought running around here. Those that say...comply and let them do what they want and hope it all goes through...eventually, and those that hold their feet to the fire.
    On that note...I'm going home.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  14. #28
    Member Array chiboxer's Avatar
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    OK, perhaps I minunderstood you. Generally everyone on here seems to be pretty reasonable, and fairly pro-LE. I see the point regarding the police, I just believe there are different ways to handle things than going to Internal Affairs. At my agency our Internal Affairs division is run like the Gestapo, so I hate to see officers subjected to that if they absolutlely don't have to be.
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array Creature's Avatar
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    At my agency our Internal Affairs division is run like the Gestapo, so I hate to see officers subjected to that if they absolutlely don't have to be.
    But its okay for a woman who was well within her rights to be threatened with arrest and charged with destruction of property after she is almost attacked by an aggressive dog?

  16. #30
    Member Array chiboxer's Avatar
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    I didn't get the impression she was threatened with anything, the officer merely related what he (mistakenly as it turns out) believed to be the potential legal ramifications of her course of action. As I stated before, talk to the officer's supervisor if there is clarification needed for the erroneous legal advice he dispensed. As far as disciplinary action goes, where is his malicious intent? Was he uncivil and discourteous? Did he violate some rule or regulation of his department? Everyone thinks it's so easy to be the police and that they of course would do a much better job than us. Of course it's relatively impossible to be well versed in every federal, state, and municipal law that we are supposed to take cognizance of. That's why we have a District Attorney's office and a court to review our interpretations of the law and adjudicate them appropriately. I think the anger towards the police is misdirected and counterproductive. Was the officer mistaken? Sure. However, I think emotional and knee-jerk reactions do nothing to amerliorate the mistake or improve future community-police interactions. As I stated previously, a calm rational discussion with perhaps the officer himself or his immediate supervisor would be educational for all parties involved.
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

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