Colorado Carjacking - What would you do?

This is a discussion on Colorado Carjacking - What would you do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This happened yesterday. http://www.9news.com/news/local/arti...?storyid=82402 Personally, I think there is a lot of BS behind this incident. But my question still stands, what would you do?...

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Thread: Colorado Carjacking - What would you do?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Colorado Carjacking - What would you do?

    This happened yesterday.

    http://www.9news.com/news/local/arti...?storyid=82402

    Personally, I think there is a lot of BS behind this incident. But my question still stands, what would you do?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Ride4TheBrand's Avatar
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    wow. machine guns. good eye by the victim.
    not.
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    Member Array BillR's Avatar
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    The obvious question is what kind of car trouble were they having??
    It was bad enough to need to stop on the freeway shoulder at 2am, but NOT bad enough to keep the BG from driving it away??
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    Machine guns

    Not much one could do...BUT, if you know you're going out...don't go alone!


    Stay armed...no prisoners...stay safe!
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; December 8th, 2007 at 12:57 PM.
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    Member Array libertarian5's Avatar
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    I need a new car anyway. I don't think I'd engage two people with weapons pointed my way unless I had some cover, or thought they were gong to kill me and had no choice.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    In the face of two inbound criminals that had what appeared to be "full-auto" rifles leveled at me? There's not a lot to be done. At best, you can keep aware of any opening where the concealed firearm could be drawn, but that would depend on being able to do it effectively, since it would certainly draw fire from one or both of them. The reality is, an insured car isn't worth my life, to me. I suppose I don't like the grin-and-bear-it approach, but with guns drawn and two-on-one there isn't a lot of wiggle room. Ever tried getting out of a situation in paintball, or even as a child with dart guns? Without skills, the knowledge to do so and a good bit of luck, it's damned diifficult to not get "shot." Can't afford to get this decision wrong.
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    I would likely drive away as fast as possible. If they're going to kill me, it will probably happen either way and I 'd much rather be shot while evading/defending myself than execution style in the back of the head.

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    It doesn't sound like they had time to do much at all but comply!

    I can't say I'd do anything different either, even though I know I would want to!
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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    When you finish with the car, burn it to totally wipe it clean. No way to take on 2 with guns pointed at me unless I know that I'm dead. Property can be replaced in this case.
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    Senior Member Array sui-juris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    In the face of two inbound criminals that had what appeared to be "full-auto" rifles leveled at me? There's not a lot to be done. At best, you can keep aware of any opening where the concealed firearm could be drawn, but that would depend on being able to do it effectively, since it would certainly draw fire from one or both of them. The reality is, an insured car isn't worth my life, to me. I suppose I don't like the grin-and-bear-it approach, but with guns drawn and two-on-one there isn't a lot of wiggle room. Ever tried getting out of a situation in paintball, or even as a child with dart guns? Without skills, the knowledge to do so and a good bit of luck, it's damned diifficult to not get "shot." Can't afford to get this decision wrong.
    Great points. Just goes to prove nothing good happens after midnight...

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Doesn't sound like there was much they could do after being approached by two guys with guns drawn. Although this does show why it isn't a good idea to leave your darn gun in the glove box. I am sure if they do get the car back the gun will never be seen again by them.

    Wonder what kind of machine guns they were, think they were those scary black ones?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I would have to wonder if the BGs had the state of mind that the victims will comply, so the commitment to shoot one or more of them is not in the forefront of their mind, so seizing on that opportunity to present a "Please don't shoot us, we are on our way home from a church social..." look, and as you are supposedly going for your wallet, draw and fire.

    If I remember correctly, it's 3.4 seconds for the message to go from the eyes, to the brain, process, then to the finger on the part of the BG who is not expecting the sheep to be a wolf. BG#2 then has to deal with additional info as his partner is no longer, and the plan is not going according to plan, especially if he did not see it happen.

    You as the wolf have already made the time consuming commitment to fire and formed your plan, putting you 1.5 - 2.0 seconds ahead of the BGs.

    I agree, an insured vehicle is not worth dieing over, but the personal bias of refusing to be a victim under any circumstance...

    I would have to decide if they knew what they were doing. I have seen youtube footage of "tactical shooting with multiple weapons" where the shooter appeared to know what he was doing, right up to the point he took his eyes off the target at weapon or magazine change to watch what he was grabbing.

    As for the actual victims and the gun in the glove box...carrying illegally, gang banger (given the car and the part of town - I know, sterotype, nice gun though, wrong caliber) or drugs.
    Last edited by Sticks; December 8th, 2007 at 08:55 PM. Reason: Oh yeah, gun in the glove box

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    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    I agree there is something not right about this story. That said, your outgunned and they have the drop on you. Your options are terribly limited.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    If I remember correctly, it's 3.4 seconds for the message to go from the eyes, to the brain, process, then to the finger on the part of the BG ...

    You as the wolf have already made the time consuming commitment to fire and formed your plan, putting you 1.5 - 2.0 seconds ahead of the BGs.
    Only if these are "average" BGs. Whatever "numbers" people have hypothesized, the timing is crucial in order to attempt something like this. It would take a combination of factors to execute cleanly, and even then there are no guarantees ... nothing to ensure 1.5 - 2.0 seconds ahead would be anywhere near reality.

    As for how quick a movement could be picked up and acted on, think back to when you've played around with a hose of water, with either your dog or your friends as a child. Recall how quickly you could point that stream of water at the movement. Or, speak with anyone marginally adept at H2H skills, in terms of how quickly one can block an incoming strike. It's not that difficult, as the visual system is extremely quick to process such things. I'd hate to rely on some expert's (?) 3.4 seconds guesstimate in a life and death decision.

    Two on one, two "full-auto" weapons already drawn and pointing at me. Unless their attention is elsewhere or they head to the other side of the car so they cannot see the movement, moving to draw against them would be nearly certain death.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Member Array 1911packer's Avatar
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    First, How did they know there were machine guns? Could they see the select fire switch?

    Second, Sounds like they were completely ambushed. I would hope my situational awareness would have been a little higher than that.

    The value of a car does not figure into my decision making process in a carjacking. If you want to steal my personal property, that's one thing but carjackings have a bad track record of going from "Give me your car" to "Give my your life."

    Just like when the BG orders everyone to lay down on the floor in an armed robbery, there is a point where all bets are off and I have to try to defend my life.

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