Your first shot is a squib!!!
This is a discussion on Your first shot is a squib!!! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Check out the vid clips, from Paul Castle's Sabre Tac. Training- FTF, followed by FTC (failure to clear), followed by clubbing the target.(The "Reaction" pic)
August 2nd, 2005 10:50 AM
Check out the vid clips, from Paul Castle's Sabre Tac. Training- FTF, followed by FTC (failure to clear), followed by clubbing the target.(The "Reaction" pic)
Works for me! The main reason I sold my Glocks & now have "real-steel"- a grown man can "flex" the slide off a Glock, with serious pounding. You may bend your 1911 or BHP, but you won't be stuck holding a 4oz frame, trying to fend someone off. :chairshot
August 2nd, 2005 11:09 AM
I'm really, really, hoping rfurtkamp is correct, "You've got a Sig. They passed the military testing for handling squib loads. Fire again.". That's what I'd want to do. I'm not too keen on using the gun as an impact weapon with an assailant or assailants that are younger, stronger, tougher, and faster than me. There seem to be more guys like that every year.
Originally Posted by Rob72
August 2nd, 2005 02:15 PM
With an auto, if you attempt to fire a second round and the barrel bulges, that's it. The slide can no longer reciprocate with a bulged barrel.
This scenario is an excellent argument for a back-up gun, and is one of the reasons I carry a BUG every day.
August 2nd, 2005 02:29 PM
August 2nd, 2005 03:41 PM
I'm all for BUGs, but I think the times will be rare, especially for a civilian, that a BUG would make a difference. I readily admit the advantage of a BUG is situational dependent, but it seems to me that if the main gun goes poof when we needed it to go bang, the fight is just about over. We just lost most of any advantage we had.
In order for a BUG to "carry the day" a whole bunch of stuff has to go our way. First, since our main gun just went poof, we would have to immediately recognize that the gun didn't do something right. Then we have to decide whether to do an immediate response drill or discard the gun and go for the BUG. Either, likely takes more time than we have.
I think once we realize the gun went poof, if we're still alive, it may be better to make distance and time by escaping, HTH attack, or use the gun as an impact weapon to gain some time/position advantage, then we might can grab the BUG.
Due to circumstances beyond my control, BUGs are a problem for me to carry, although I strongly believe in them.
August 2nd, 2005 04:14 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
Robert - sounds good - but does this just mean the barrel is tough enough to not seriously bulge if fired again or are they saying that shot #2 WILL clear bullet #1 and both will exit??
You've got a Sig. They passed the military testing for handling squib loads.
I ain't gonna do a test on MY SIG but - got any data on this - I am intrigued.
Some may have seen this pic - I guess it is a sectioned barrel from a sub gun but - sure has formed a ''queue''!!!
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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August 2nd, 2005 04:43 PM
I know that when the military was testing for some of the Socom pistols, one of the requirements was that the barrel survive (and not bulge) in the event of a squib for X number of incidents. The HK bulged but continued to function, the Sig submitted survived several without bulge or loss of function before they quit testing. My understanding is that bullet #2 clears #1, but I may be mistaken in my recollection.
That said, if things hit that badly that you've got one as the first out of the pipe, I'm going to keep pulling the trigger if there's no BUG.
Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.
August 2nd, 2005 05:32 PM
HK and Sig will clear and function, after a squib. Glock 9mm's probably will. The barrels are hard enough not to bulge too much (unless you shoot something really hot, and something about your weapon holds the breech closed longer than average).
95, re that MP-5 barrel. Someone's looking for a new set of rollers! (okay, maybe only the HK geeks will get that one.....)
August 2nd, 2005 06:23 PM
I believe that the GLOCK FireDragon replacement barrels were also privately tested & they will withstand squib loads.
I was trying to find that PDF file again on the web but, I'm running out of search options & keywords.
It was a few years ago & maybe the page just is not there anymore.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
August 2nd, 2005 06:35 PM
rack,tap,bang drill. First rule of a firefight, don't give up.
August 2nd, 2005 06:48 PM
An Interesting Web Page
A Good After Dinner Read
August 3rd, 2005 07:54 AM
I don't expect to be shooting the gun in matches after a squib and a clear, let me tell you - but truthfully, I'm not horribly paranoid about it.
Bad reloads or a bad factory shell in the massive over-pressure range are going to make the day worse than any squib, and even then it's going to depend on the handgun and what sort of mishap occurs.
Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.
August 4th, 2005 02:44 AM
I had a squib once
It was not too long ago. I was firing some sort of cheap russian ammo (I was shooting a makarov, and those rounds are not as ubiquitous as others). I did not notice that there was a squib round. The first time I had noticed a problem was when the slide would not cycle. It required a screwdriver and some leverage to clear the round.
I usually carry my 1911, sometimes I substitute or add a smith 5-shot revolver. I do not know how the 1911 would handle a squib, but I would conduct an immediate action drill when the expected BANG became an unexpected CLICK. If the gun is as hosed as my Makarov was, then POOF!; you have a paperweight to defend yourself with...act accordingly.
Anyway, here's a shameless plug for my blog with the entry describing the event.
"You are what you do when it counts."
"The secret to long life...is gunsights!"
August 4th, 2005 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by rfurtkamp
If you two are right, and I'm not saying you aren't; I'm hoping you are, but if you are, that makes the original scenario much simpler. IF you have a Sig or H&K and have a squib, the tap, rack, and BANG immediate action drill should correct the problem, send two rounds down range, and the Sig or H&K will be ready for necessary follow up shots. For me, that's a BIG PLUS for Sig and H&K.
Originally Posted by Rob72
Are you guys sure about the Sig and H&K squib survival thing? You're not just gettin' my hopes all built up are you?
August 5th, 2005 12:20 PM
I know that the HK did this in trials. As a matter of fact, I believe the Mk23's groups actually pulled in after the bulgie. Basic truth: a squib with a good auto is far better than a squib with a good revolver. I've never heard of a "double-fired" revolver surviving intact- the force usuall seperates crane/frame/barrel/and/or the hood, always with more than a "tingling hand" for the shooter.
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