Let's talk about when to shoot someone in the back...

Let's talk about when to shoot someone in the back...

This is a discussion on Let's talk about when to shoot someone in the back... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We all know that generally speaking, shooting a fleeing scumbag that just tried to kill you is a bad idea if he's turned tail and ...

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Thread: Let's talk about when to shoot someone in the back...

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Let's talk about when to shoot someone in the back...

    We all know that generally speaking, shooting a fleeing scumbag that just tried to kill you is a bad idea if he's turned tail and is running for it. Less often discussed is that it may still be justifiable if he is not fleeing, but just trying to get to cover to shoot more or is shooting while running, etc. It's definately gonna be a case where the DA and jury will have weeks to decide what you were given only a nanosecond to think about. I'd like to hear some thoughts on distinguishing which is which. What might help you decide if your adversary is still in the fight?
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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    If he's still breathing.

    In a nanosecond you have to make a decision like that.....personally, he endangered me and/or mine. Shooting someone in the back is a tricky call.
    Stopping the threat is the bottom line......now if the BG is no longer a threat, holding your fire is an option.
    Last edited by goldshellback; December 27th, 2007 at 12:00 AM. Reason: add a thought.
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    If you witnessed him actually killing someone and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is quilty.

    In some states, someone in the actual act of ARSON may be shot to prevent damage. There again, you must witness the act and you only shoot to prevent further damage.
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    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    If they're armed, have announced or demonstrated an intention to attack another person(s), and are moving toward that/those person(s), but away from you, I'd say you'd be perfectly justified in shooting them in the back.

    I'd recommend challenging from behind cover before shooting, just in case that might stop them.....AND to meet the requirement for preclusion should it not.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    If they are set about doing other harm, it is typically okay to stop 'em.

    A fleeing suspect just running for the sake of running is a tough call and really depends on local laws.

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    Sgt. Mac FTW.

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Again Texas law makes it easy for us. Pretty much, if we can shoot you while you are doing it, we can shoot you to prevent your escape afterwards! That is, as long as we reasonably believe that any other method would fail or expose us to serious bodily injury. I am not saying that I would, but it is nice to have options.
    If we are talking in the immediate aftermath of a shooting or something like that, I would be much less inclined to take a shot if the subject had dropped their weapon. Other than that I really can't say. I think it would be totally a situational response.
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    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Again Texas law makes it easy for us. Pretty much, if we can shoot you while you are doing it, we can shoot you to prevent your escape afterwards! That is, as long as we reasonably believe that any other method would fail or expose us to serious bodily injury. I am not saying that I would, but it is nice to have options.
    Clearly Texas law allows the use of force, including deadly force, to prevent someone escaping with your property. Similarly the castle doctrine does not require the home owner to retreat to another location to avoid use of deadly force.

    On the other hand, I have searched the Texas statutes extensively for authority to use deadly force against someone who is merely escaping, and have been unable to find such a statute. I would appreciate it if you can direct me to the statute which gives that additional level of authority.

  9. #9
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    Preventing felon's escape after extremely violent crimes like murder and rape which you personally witnessed.

    Perp is firing back at you or showing an inclination to do so as he runs away.

    During a violent close-in encounter when otherwise justified....armed perp turns his back at close range does not mean it is over...he might change his mind.
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    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    If they're armed, have announced or demonstrated an intention to attack another person(s), and are moving toward that/those person(s), but away from you, I'd say you'd be perfectly justified in shooting them in the back.

    I'd recommend challenging from behind cover before shooting, just in case that might stop them.....AND to meet the requirement for preclusion should it not.
    I like the Sarge's answer here, and I think it sums up the most responsible take on this issue.

    This brings up a hilarious thing I heard Ron White say...

    "...it is against the law to shoot somebody in the back. But you can start shooting 'em in the leg until they turn around. After the first couple shots, they're bound to get curious. 'Who is shooting me in the leg, I wonder quietly to myself'...(turns)...BLAMMO!!!"
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    if they just shot me and I am not dead...


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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    Clearly Texas law allows the use of force, including deadly force, to prevent someone escaping with your property. Similarly the castle doctrine does not require the home owner to retreat to another location to avoid use of deadly force.

    On the other hand, I have searched the Texas statutes extensively for authority to use deadly force against someone who is merely escaping, and have been unable to find such a statute. I would appreciate it if you can direct me to the statute which gives that additional level of authority.
    Tx Penal code
    9.42. (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
    A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
    3) he reasonably believes that:
    A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
    B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

    This statute also applies to a 3rd person's property as defined in TX PC9.43

    The Reasonably believes part is the only catch...it really comes down to the fact that you're going to have to see a Grand Jury. If you have a good reason, you probably won't go to trial...and you really shouldn't be shooting anybody without a good reason, anyway.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Again Texas law makes it easy for us. Pretty much, if we can shoot you while you are doing it, we can shoot you to prevent your escape afterwards! That is, as long as we reasonably believe that any other method would fail or expose us to serious bodily injury. I am not saying that I would, but it is nice to have options.
    That's not entirely accurate...(see above post) he has to have property of your's or a third person's that you reasonably believe you are responsible for and you have to be reasonably sure you cannot recover that said property any other way...you don't have permission to stop a felon from escaping...just a felon with your property...so plant your wallet on him after you shoot him...
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Another section to look at is PC.9.52. (2) (b) As long as you are trying to effect a "legal arrest", you are not required to be a peace officer under this section. I will see if I can find it in a format I can copy.
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